Official MSE Economy 7 Guide discussion

Gerry1

EnergyTwist wrote: »

This:

That is correct; one of the many.

Many suppliers (e.g. Avro) WILL add the two readings together; I've been with umpteen of them having had an E7 meter since the 1980s, so I do know what I'm talking about, and I've always agreed that some don't offer this. So nothing of mine has been incorrect.

EnergyTwist wrote: »

You cannot have E7 with any supplier if you have a single rate meter fitted. I'm not sure what your point is.:rotfl:

Oh, for heaven's sake ! When have I ever suggested that anyone can have E7 rates from a single rate meter? That's obviously absurd. Please stop trolling.

If you'd even bothered to read the link to which I referred, you'd have seen that Bulb state "We don't currently offer new 2 rate meters, so you can't switch from a standard meter to a 2 rate meter at the moment." That was the point I was making, I'm actually agreeing with you that Bulb are one of the suppliers that won't add up the two readings because Bulb members must be on a 2-rate agreement when on an Economy 7 meter.

So to summarise:

Before changing from E7 to a single rate meter (which will limit your future options), check whether the lower night rate savings will offset the extra costs associated with the higher daytime rate and the higher standing charge. With many suppliers, if your night usage is low, E7 will NOT be cheaper than a single rate tariff.

JennyJukes

I have economy 7 but I'm with bulb and have been since October. Everything was going fine then a few weeks ago my smart meter stopped working completely. I went to manually submit my meter readings a few days ago and noticed my "night-time" reading had gone down like so:

12/12/19: 736 & 6059
19/12/19: 738 & 6108
27/12/19: 736 & 6123

As you can see, my second rate has went back down to 736 whilst my first rate has gone up. I asked bulb if this meant my first time rate was taking account of all energy use and all she said was "I don't know, economy 7 is a mystery" !!!!!??? I then had to prod her for some more help as I obviously want to make sure I am paying what I'm due and don't end up with a big bill in future.

She then said looking into my account, my "low-rate" (am I supposed to have one on Bulb?) is 9-5 on Sunday which she called "unusual". She said to continue sending my meter readings manually and she would put a note on my account. This obviously doesn't reassure me at all - it doesn't explain why my meter reading went down and hasn't gone up since.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on? I have no clue how E7 works and I assumed as Bulb is one tarriff I would just be billed the same for all energy - can anyone explain how that works? Looking at previous posts here it seems I *need* to be on a 2 day rate agreement and mine seems to be a lower rate on Sundays? The last bill I got just looked like:

Energy (2): 10 kWh @ 12.86p
Energy (1): 154 kWh @ 12.86p
Standing Charge: 30 days @ 19.47p

Anyone else with Bulb tell me how theirs works?

FestiveJoy

JennyJukes wrote: »

I have economy 7 but I'm with bulb and have been since October. Everything was going fine then a few weeks ago my smart meter stopped working completely. I went to manually submit my meter readings a few days ago and noticed my "night-time" reading had gone down like so:

12/12/19: 736 & 6059
19/12/19: 738 & 6108
27/12/19: 736 & 6123

As you can see, my second rate has went back down to 736 whilst my first rate has gone up. I asked bulb if this meant my first time rate was taking account of all energy use and all she said was "I don't know, economy 7 is a mystery" !!!!!??? I then had to prod her for some more help as I obviously want to make sure I am paying what I'm due and don't end up with a big bill in future.

She then said looking into my account, my "low-rate" (am I supposed to have one on Bulb?) is 9-5 on Sunday which she called "unusual". She said to continue sending my meter readings manually and she would put a note on my account. This obviously doesn't reassure me at all - it doesn't explain why my meter reading went down and hasn't gone up since.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on? I have no clue how E7 works and I assumed as Bulb is one tarriff I would just be billed the same for all energy - can anyone explain how that works? Looking at previous posts here it seems I *need* to be on a 2 day rate agreement and mine seems to be a lower rate on Sundays? The last bill I got just looked like:

Energy (2): 10 kWh @ 12.86p
Energy (1): 154 kWh @ 12.86p
Standing Charge: 30 days @ 19.47p

Anyone else with Bulb tell me how theirs works?

I would suggest you start by reading the link in the OP, if you have not already. It explains what the Economy 7 tariff is and how it operates

In regards to meters going backwards, they don't.
I suggest you either misread the meter, or otherwise recorded the readings incorrectly.

It seems you are not on Economy 7, but rather a single rate tariff. This is based on your readings that indicate one of the registries is not recording any usage.

Bulb, like most suppliers, offer a range of tariffs.

e.g. here in the Leeds area they have a single rate tariff:

13.23p/kWh and 20.4435p/day

They also have an economy 7 tariff

15.2355p/kWh (norm) / 8.652p/kWh (low) and 20.4435p/day

They even have a 3 rate tariff option if you have a smart meter

12.68p/kWh (off peak) / 26.15p/kWh (peak) / 8.65p/kWh (overnight) and 20.4435p/day

In any event, consult a comparison site, as I suspect all these could cost less with another supplier dependant on your own usage and supply region.
(although you will not find the 3 rate tariff on any comparison site)

JennyJukes

FestiveJoy wrote: »

I would suggest you start by reading the link in the OP, if you have not already. It explains what the Economy 7 tariff is and how it operates

In regards to meters going backwards, they don't.
I suggest you either misread the meter, or otherwise recorded the readings incorrectly.

It seems you are not on Economy 7, but rather a single rate tariff. This is based on your readings that indicate one of the registries is not recording any usage.

Bulb, like most suppliers, offer a range of tariffs.

e.g. here in the Leeds area they have a single rate tariff:

13.23p/kWh and 20.4435p/day

They also have an economy 7 tariff

15.2355p/kWh (norm) / 8.652p/kWh (low) and 20.4435p/day

They even have a 3 rate tariff option if you have a smart meter

12.68p/kWh (off peak) / 26.15p/kWh (peak) / 8.65p/kWh (overnight) and 20.4435p/day

In any event, consult a comparison site, as I suspect all these could cost less with another supplier dependant on your own usage and supply region.
(although you will not find the 3 rate tariff on any comparison site)

Thanks, I was on a E7 tariff before I joined bulb, which I did because I was under the impression it was a single rate and my previous supplier was more expensive as I rarely used the night-time rate. Hence I was confused the Bulb customer service woman told me I have a low tariff on a Sunday. With it now being Sunday, I'm doing my laundry and have taken meter readings for both and will see which goes up.

Looking at my previous readings I have given to Bulb, the second rate was going up and only recently has stopped. You're right I probably read 736 as 738 when it's actually stayed at 736 since since 12th December. I'm just a little confused why it was going up for a bit then it has stopped. And the smart meter stopped working too, probably around that time so I'm wondering if it maybe just took the meters a little bit longer to realise it was no longer on a E7 tariff? In any case, Bulb asks me for two meter readings even though it's only on one tariff now. Sorry it's all confusing for me and I just want to make sure everything is being recorded as it should.

I did do a comparison and that's how I went with Bulb.

MariuszW

I just want to warn some of you and also get an opinion about the Economy 7 setup we have in our house.

So, we have gas fired heating, but water is heated by electricity. The water tank has 2 immersion heaters - one that runs all day (which is usually switched off) and another one at the bottom of the tank which runs on Economy 7 and is on all the time, but the juice is there only over night. All other circuits runs on normal daily tariff! We checked - we switched off the boiler and run some heaters for a while, and it was the daily rate reading that changed, even though we run it at night.

Can someone advice:
1. Is this normal?
2. If not, is this shoddy work of the electrician who installed the meters?
3. If not, is this shoddy work of the electrician who did wiring of the house?

I really recommend, turning some heaters on during the night, from normal sockets to check that you don't have the same setup as we do.

peakrate

MariuszW wrote: »

I just want to warn some of you and also get an opinion about the Economy 7 setup we have in our house.

So, we have gas fired heating, but water is heated by electricity. The water tank has 2 immersion heaters - one that runs all day (which is usually switched off) and another one at the bottom of the tank which runs on Economy 7 and is on all the time, but the juice is there only over night. All other circuits runs on normal daily tariff! We checked - we switched off the boiler and run some heaters for a while, and it was the daily rate reading that changed, even though we run it at night.

Can someone advice:
1. Is this normal?
2. If not, is this shoddy work of the electrician who installed the meters?
3. If not, is this shoddy work of the electrician who did wiring of the house?

I really recommend, turning some heaters on during the night, from normal sockets to check that you don't have the same setup as we do.

No E7 meter is capable of recording consumption on each registry at the same time.

So if I understand you correctly, in that during the period the lower immersion heater is live and hence you say is using low rate electricity, but the electrical sockets usage is recorded by another registry, then you do not have E7.

You probably have 2 MPANs too!

gaz_moose

check your meter is displaying a rate1 and rate2. when I left British gas they changed my electric meter settings somehow to only supply me rate1 electric which made all my Economy7 circuits permanent live.

luckily I had all the heaters turned off as I was renovating but I only noticed as I arced out a wire when moving an E7 socket that should have been dead.

Gerry1

MariuszW wrote: »

We checked - we switched off the boiler and run some heaters for a while, and it was the daily rate reading that changed, even though we run it at night.

Can someone advice:
1. Is this normal?
2. If not, is this shoddy work of the electrician who installed the meters?
3. If not, is this shoddy work of the electrician who did wiring of the house?

I really recommend, turning some heaters on during the night, from normal sockets to check that you don't have the same setup as we do.

If you're saying you plugged in an electric fire or fan heater at night, there are several possibilities.

1. You're mistaken about your exact E7 night rate times. Dial 105 to check. If you have a radio teleswitch, remember that the times can vary by +/ 15 minutes. There may be a two hour gap as well, e.g. at present my E7 night rate will go back to day rate between 12:30am and 2:30am.

2. If it's a clockwork timeswitch it could have drifted.

3. The readings may simply be transposed on the bill. There's no golden rule that Rate 1 is Night and Rate 2 is Day, it varies. Do you give the meter readings yourself? Which rates and meter readings are shown on the bills?

You need to start by confirming what the switching times are supposed to be, and then checking to see whether this is actually happening in reality. If the E7 immersion heater supply has a neon indicator that will help; if it's a radio teleswitch it will probably have a small red lever that moves down with a clunk when it switches to night rate.



Finally, the elephant in the room. Compared to gas, you're probably paying about three times as much to use an E7 immersion heater, or five times to top it up in the day (check the pence per kWh rates). WHY?? :huh:

G4MHJ

I have just done a full analysis of my Economy 7 usage. If my figures are correct over a near two year period then my nightly consumption is 29%. This is higher than I expected so perhaps I should keep this rate rather than moving to a single rate.

Period: 697 days - 12200 kWh Day + 3460 kWh Night

4 Bedroom semi with no night storage heating.

molerat

3460 is 22% of 15660, on the lower side for E7 suitability. You need to do 2 comparisons using an annual consumption of 8200 on E7 with a 78/22 % split and on a single rate to find which will be most economical.