Official MSE Economy 7 Guide discussion

skwerl

Thanks. Makes sense. Isn't E7 there to incentivise usage during low consumption periods? i.e. wouldn't it be sensible for energy companies to offer lower overnight rates? I suppose the answer is yes but why would they? One for Ofgem maybe

Gerry1

skwerl wrote: »

Isn't E7 there to incentivise usage during low consumption periods? i.e. wouldn't it be sensible for energy companies to offer lower overnight rates? I suppose the answer is yes but why would they?

I don't know all the ins and out of how the generation / reselling market works, but presumably it's cheaper to keep a few large power stations operating efficiently at full load 24/7 without the hassle of firing up smaller and costlier ones to cater for kettles, toasters, electric fires, electric showers etc at teatime. So the real game changers are the heavy users e.g. space heating and hot water. If you can really lower generating costs by shifting those to the small hours then you can afford to pass on some of the savings by reducing the unit rate. However, if your overnight use is just the fridge and the freezer the big boys probably aren't interested, they'd just see lower income without being able to switch off any power stations.

That said, some newer and smaller suppliers such as Yorkshire Energy are competitive with E7 night usage down to about 15%. They don't start off with a large dozy customer base who still think they're still the Electricity Board, so they have to try harder in order to survive.

Scrobs

Thank you Coffeehound!

The timer just seems to either be on or off, but I can do it all manually of course! The NSHs are all on a separate circuit - possibly two, as we had some alterations some years ago, but I am also noticing that a couple of them start to heat up later in the morning, so won't be storing on night rates!

Being a spreadsheet 'nerd', I'm logging usage daily, as I'm pretty sure that the clock is wrong, and awaiting a response from my new supplier, Bulb!

The timings, by the way, came from the standard websites showing the whole country, and we're slap-bang in the middle of the band I mentioned.

Sorry to be late replying, I totally forgot where I'd posted this!

Best wishes,

Scrobs

Matthew_Pollock

I am on Economy 7 and have a 35 sq. m. room. It is used throughout the day and early evening. Our Dimplex storage heater is not coping. Obviously supplementing that with a delayed heat-release storage heater is the way to go. It should store at night without releasing much heat, and be highly controllable so as to release heat during the day when desired.

So the key factors are:

1. Cost of heater for a given Kw rating
2. Efficiency of storage / release mechanism

Comsumer choice is made impossible by the fact that there is no proper comparative testing. Which? e.g. has not done a test. And the choices seem surprisingly limited:

• Dimplex Quantum is the high-profile solution. It is expensive, online reviews are poor, and the company generally has a bad reputation for service.
• Fischer: I can't see the price online, but reviews are excellent. But it is not 100% a storage heater, instead it supplements stored heat by active daytime electricity input to produce the heat output. We would be using it against an inner wall so the much-vaunted technology of shielding the heater's back area wouldn't make much difference to us.
• Haben: I can't find much online about these.

So to repeat the key factors are:

1. Cost of heater for a given output
2. Efficiency of storage / release mechanism

Could someone give me a reasoned opinion as to which delayed heat-release storage heater is best value, in terms of those factors?

Gerry1

You won't find any unfavourable reviews on Trustpilot because they all get taken down. Those that remain are invariably from people who have recently installed them: they just say the people were nice and that there was no mess. Not a sausage from longer term users about the crippling running costs ! That's what's always missing from the Trustpilot reviews.

For any given room and temperature difference between inside and outside, a certain number of kW will be required to maintain a comfortable temperature. You can't get away from that, it's down to the laws of physics.

The key factor you've completely overlooked is that gas can be about 3p/kWh, off peak electricity around 9p/kWh and full price electricity around 16p/kWh (YMMV). The panel radiators use full price electricity which means the bills can never be competitive: you might as well plug in a £25 fan heater, electric fire or oil filled radiator.

It's like having a bath using Perrier bottled water instead of turning on the tap. Why not read the MSE reviews?

Cardew

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3516223

G4MHJ

I have an Economy 7 meter with dual dials and a large black timing box. We had it installed when a friend recommended that it was better to have it as we had two freezers in the garage. We have never had storage heaters. Our water and heating is via a Vaillant Gas boiler.
When I swapped supplier there was a conversation about which tariff I should be on and I kept to E7. I am now wondering if when I renew the tariff (or move supplier) that both meter readings can be used for a normal rate? This would prevent a meter change cost that they seem to want (between £88 - £110 I think). Thinking about future and the roll out of Smart Meters is this usually free? I am not interested in seeing my consumption just happy not to have to supply monthly readings which they insist on.

Gerry1

Many suppliers will happily add the two readings together, so there's little point in replacing an E7 meter with a single rate one because it would limit your options. Just get quotations for both E7 and single rate using annual kWh usage from actual meter readings.

The high cost of smart meters (around £475 per household) is not billed as a separate item but as higher energy costs for everyone, so you're already paying whether you have smartmeters or not. But bear in mind they can cut you off remotely (Load Shedding) and/or ration the amount you use at any given time (Load Limiting), as well as facilitating Time of Use tariffs that can be crippingly expensive at peak times ! :eek:

Gerry1

EnergyTwist wrote: »

Most suppliers will ask you to pay for a meter change (normally its about £50) if you do not wish to receive 7 hours of cheap rate electricity every day.

As previously stated, many will add up the two readings and bill you at the single rate, although Bulb no longer do this.

But it's not as simple as just saying 'if you do not wish to receive 7 hours of cheap rate electricity every day.'. The standing charge is usually higher, as is the day rate, so E7 can work out significantly more expensive if you don't use a fair amount at night. However, some of the smaller companies are cheaper on E7 even with night usage as low as about 15%.

If you really want the cheapest deal, you just have to get quotations for both E7 and single rate, preferably also comparing dual fuel and separate suppliers. Yes, it's a few minutes work on the PC, but the savings make it very worthwhile !

Gerry1

EnergyTwist wrote: »

You can state things as many times as you wish; it won't make it correct.

What is incorrect? :huh:

I have an E7 radio teleswitch and I've often been on single rate because my night usage is around 22% (I don't have storage heaters). Bulb state that they won't add up the two readings. Unless you know differently?

In fact, if you're with Bub and have a single rate meter, you can't even switch to E7 !