Net migration down nearly 100,000 over the year

ruggedtoast

Graham_Devon wrote: »

There was a statistic out the other day, I'm pretty sure it was on question time, suggesting what you suggest and suggesting that around 30% of student visas are used to gain entry, not study.

I don't think anyone would suggest this doesn't happen, afterall, people are desperate to get here.

It's just difficult to discuss this on here at the moment as everything appears to lead back to "racist!".

The facts are that this statistic is pulled out of someone's a$$, because the UKBA never used to bother counting people on student visas out, so therefore no one had the faintest idea who was over-staying and who wasn't.

Since 2010 anyone sponsoring a Tier IV visa for education has to go through a heavy handed and pedantic accreditation and reporting process that has killed off all the bogus private places and a fairly large number of the legitimate ones.

Regardless of this I would like to ask what is so wrong with people coming here, who actually want to come here?

Maybe we should only allow visas for people who dont like the UK at all and would rather go somewhere else entirely?

I dont personally think someone coming on a legitimate visa for legitimate reason who also has an aspiration to then find a wayto live and work here legally is necessarily a bad person. Unless they are being pre-judged by some arbitrary criteria like their race, or the colour of their skin.

CLAPTON

gadgetmind wrote: »

Agreed absolutely 100%. Most UK engineering companies are finding recruitment to be one of their largest headaches, often the largest.

We need to train more engineers, and specifically we need to train engineers who will work in the UK after graduating.

If we can't recruit, then we can't compete and it's only pulling in people from around the EU that's keeping the lights on. The idea that a bunch of loons might even contemplate turning off this tap fills me with dread.

If there is shortage of good graduate engineers one would expect the price to rise.
How do graduate engineering salaries compare with other good graduates?

gadgetmind

CLAPTON wrote: »

If there is shortage of good graduate engineers one would expect the price to rise.

It's risen a fair bit in just the last 3-4 years.

How do graduate engineering salaries compare with other good graduates?

We pay £26k to £30k depending on skillset and location plus generous benefits including pension, healthcare, share incentives, etc. We then do fast-track rises for a few years for those who are clearly high fliers.

If things continue as they are, I'd expect our starting salary for grads to get close to £30k next year even in the grim north. This compares well with other industries though I'm sure investment banking and oil&gas probably beat us hands down.

Graham_Devon

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I dont personally think someone coming on a legitimate visa for legitimate reason who also has an aspiration to then find a wayto live and work here legally is necessarily a bad person. Unless they are being pre-judged by some arbitrary criteria like their race, or the colour of their skin.

This really isn't fair to anyone who's suggested lower immigration is a good thing, or something they would like to continue.

No one has said anything about immigrants being "bad people". No one has pre-judged anyone. All we've done is look at numbers.

It just railroads the debate back down the "racist" route again.

Absolutely no one has even attempted to look at any of the infrastructure issues I put forward. Plenty have fallen over themselves to throw names around though.

I personally feel like my issues about infrastructure were fair issues.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Absolutely no one has even attempted to look at any of the infrastructure issues I put forward.

We need economically productive people to pay for infrastructure projects.

Why does it matter where they come from?

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

We need economically productive people to pay for infrastructure projects.

Why does it matter where they come from?

OK, we've had them.

Wheres the increased infrastructure?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

wotsthat wrote: »

We need economically productive people to pay for infrastructure projects.

Why does it matter where they come from?

Spot on.

You can't have fewer and fewer people of working age paying to replace our creaking and outdated infrastructure.

It simply doesn't add up.

Which is why the OBR amongst many others note the severe adverse economic and fiscal effect to society of reducing immigration amounts to many Billions of pounds.

Still, against that you have to weight up Dev's desire for a cheaper house, and a couple of minutes shorter commute.:cool:

Graham_Devon

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Spot on.

You can't have fewer and fewer people of working age paying to replace our creaking and outdated infrastructure.

It simply doesn't add up.

Which is why the OBR amongst many others note the severe adverse economic and fiscal effect to society of reducing immigration amounts to many Billions of pounds.

Still, against that you have to weight up Dev's desire for a cheaper house, and a couple of minutes shorter commute.:cool:

That's all fine, BUT, in practice....wheres the new infrastructure from the last 10 years? We had record immigration...so surely, based on what you are both saying there has been massive infrastructure too?

I dont know of much, indeed, I'm guessing that's why we have so many issues with infrastructure. But I'm open to be proven wrong with examples of said increased infrastructure that would have gone hand in hand with the reord immigration....

I respect your right to say it...but wheres the evidence?

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

OK, we've had them.

Wheres the increased infrastructure?

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/infrastructure_nip.htm

Analysis of infrastructure investment for this update indicates that average annual infrastructure investment between 2010 and 2012 has increased to £33 billion per year from an average of £29 billion per year between 2005 and 2010. This increase in investment is driven by increased investment in energy and transport.

Percy1983

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Spot on.

You can't have fewer and fewer people of working age paying to replace our creaking and outdated infrastructure.

It simply doesn't add up.

Which is why the OBR amongst many others note the severe adverse economic and fiscal effect to society of reducing immigration amounts to many Billions of pounds.

Still, against that you have to weight up Dev's desire for a cheaper house, and a couple of minutes shorter commute.:cool:

All the more reason to end the current pyramid scheme.