Net migration down nearly 100,000 over the year

michaels

Now this is frightening

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm85/8557/8557.pdf

A reasoned argument why the inclusion of net students in net migration figures makes no sense and a govt rebuttal that fails to address any of the issues raised and just says 'Well we are going to do it our way whatever you say'.

It also confirms (answer to paragraph 4) that students registering to stay for less than 1 year are not included in the figures....

IN fact despite being in general a coalition supporter I will call this as it is - a cynical bit of data manipulation in order to gain political capital at the expense of doing the right thing for the country. The govt wants to be seen to be reducing net migration; the only component of which it can control (due to the UNCHR and the EU overriding our sovereign parliament and our dire need for skilled workers such as doctors to keep the NHS going) is student visa applications and so those are being squeezed even though the govts own data suggests that such people are unambiguously good for the country.

I wish I was less cynical and could be more shocked

Graham_Devon

michaels wrote: »

It also confirms (answer to paragraph 4) that students registering to stay for less than 1 year are not included in the figures....

Fair enough.

Though that opens more questions over our stupid immigration policy and actually backs some of what UKIP say. (I know I know, but it does!).

Why go through the long route when you can go through the easy route with fewer checks?

Maybe net immigration hasn't fallen that much at all....maybe it's just more and more are doing it via the easier route? Fudged stats from a government would hardly be surprising.

Linda_D_2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If we actually built and planned to accomodate 200,00 extra people per year, I doubt too many would mind.

But we don't.

We don't have the houses. The national grid is creaking. The water infrastructure isn't up to demand, already with some in London experiencing loss of supplies due to problems down the line.

We hit water shortages if we have a warmn couple of months due to the demand on the resevouirs.

Hospitals are no longer fit for purpose, with more and more problems happening due to the increasing amounts of patients and lack of expansion. Prisons are full.

Roads are congested. The rail system is at max capacity, with not even standing room. Airports are crammed.

It's not just about houses, it's everything. You can't just pile more and mor ein without expanding the infrastructure to cope.

But if it increases the value of a certain someone's house by a fiver then this is surely all worth it? That's the only important factor to be considered

gadgetmind

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Far easier to call people racists, muddlers, xenophobes.

That is actually *very* hard to do unless people actually are racists and xenophobes.

I know it's a shock, but some people really are, and they rant about immigrants eating our women, sleeping with our food, and claiming our hard-earned benefits, like swivel-eyed loons.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/shortcuts/2013/may/22/how-to-spot-swivel-eyed-loon

chewmylegoff

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/422045.article

Here is a source which suggests that this is not having a signficant impact on university applications from non-EU applicants - says down 0.8% for 2012 applications. If student visa applications are down so sharply but university applications are not, then where are the reductions coming from?

wotsthat

chewmylegoff wrote: »

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/422045.article

Here is a source which suggests that this is not having a signficant impact on university applications from non-EU applicants - says down 0.8% for 2012 applications. If student visa applications are down so sharply but university applications are not, then where are the reductions coming from?

According to the ONS figures....

Sponsored student visas applications fell 10% in the year ending March 2013. This change was not uniform, with a 5% increase for the university sector and falls of 46%, 46% and 7% for further education, English language schools and independent schools, respectively.

Therefore big falls in visas issued for further education colleges and English language schools.

There were big falls in these sectors in the last set of figures. For sure, fraud will have been reduced but probably at the expense of export income - the US, Australia & Canada will get the benefit instead.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I work at one of the UK's top universities with a large number of overseas students and researchers. Our undergrad course is still hugely oversubscribed (ten applicants per place). I get applications from all over the world for postgrad opportunities, and none of our prospective students have encountered visa problems yet. The top end of UK Higher Education is still an attractive world class product, and it's not like the visa entry system for the US, Canada or Australia is a breeze.

As a side note, we are sitting on piles of funding that is not being spent as we are SERIOUSLY strugging with recruitment at postgrad and postdoc level. This is reflected across all departments apparently. The dearth of high calibre UK engineering graduates who want to work in industry should be causing alarm at Westminster.

gadgetmind

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

The dearth of high calibre UK engineering graduates who want to work in industry should be causing alarm at Westminster.

Agreed absolutely 100%. Most UK engineering companies are finding recruitment to be one of their largest headaches, often the largest.

We need to train more engineers, and specifically we need to train engineers who will work in the UK after graduating.

If we can't recruit, then we can't compete and it's only pulling in people from around the EU that's keeping the lights on. The idea that a bunch of loons might even contemplate turning off this tap fills me with dread.

Mr._Pricklepants

Percy1983 wrote: »

I just figured why prices are getting cheaper in Oldham,

The population is actually dropping here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham

According to the table on wikipedia it's been dropping since the early 1900's
Looks like a vibrant place.

Percy1983

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

According to the table on wikipedia it's been dropping since the early 1900's
Looks like a vibrant place.

Well it was the decline of the cotton trade which caused the bulk of the decline, more interesting is the last few decades which still show decline, I wonder where they have all gone, if populations are going up, for one town to lose people another must gain people.