A BB Gun and a Minor Facial Injury

muckybutt

aliasojo wrote: »

Edit: Well hasn't this thread been an education. I thought a BB gun was a BB gun but it's not as simple, there are apparently different types that all come under the BB gun heading, so ignore my last post.

There are many different classifications of Firearms and BB guns can fall into the classifications if they meet the criteria.

BB guns derived their name from guns that fired Ball Bearings by different methods of propulsion, compressed air is the most common though some can be fired with an electrical motor, some can even fire lead shot - these would certainly be classed as a firearm.

If the method of propulsion is a self contained compressed gas cartridge the BB gun could be classed as a prohibited weapon under the firearms act ( A co2 cartridge that gives less than 12ft/lbs on air rifle or 6ft/lbs on pistols (inc BB guns) is not restricted, over that pressure they become Sec 1 firearms ), however most gas powered BB guns do not take co cartridges, they are normally powered by an external tank that fill a fixed internal tank in the BB gun, which is not the same thing.

LannieDuck

OP, I had a thought last night. Why don't you call the police non-emergency number and ask what sort of reaction they would deem proportionate in these circumstances?

I called 101 once over a malicious phone call. They were excellent. They called me back within a couple of minutes and offered to send someone round immediately (I was very surprised!). I didn't really want that, and was only seeking to report it in case there were other instances within the same area, so the policewoman on the phone suggested that they could record it on their system but not take any further action.

I'm sure if you called them up, they would be able to advise on your options. They could also give you some idea of how seriously they take reports of BB guns being fired in public places.

jackieblack

keystone wrote: »

I decided to allow the opportunity for his parents to have some input first and left it to the school to facilitate that. Thus far that hasn't happened and I'm starting to find that a tad irritating. I'm of the view that I can't leave it much beyond tomorrow tbh and (for the benefit of certain others) if that means my daughter is also in deep dwang so be it.

Any progress?

muckybutt

LannieDuck wrote: »

I called 111 once over a malicious phone call.

The non emergency number is actually 101 !

bestpud

Whilst I agree your daughter needs to be told her actions were over the top, his went above and beyond that, big time!

There is no excuse for carrying, let alone firing, a gun of any sort in public.

I do wonder if the more idiotic responses on here have deterred you from going to the police, for fear there is some element of truth and your daughter may also end up with a record?

That's the only reason I can see for not reporting it.

If he is being bullied then he may well end up getting the help he needs. He doesn't seem to have complained of that when the school spoke to him though.

Doesn't make it right either. Please report him, for the sake of all people and animals in your area.

prowla

A selection of comments in response to various posts:

1. A BB gun is not a firearm; they are air powered, not propelled by an explosive charge.
2. A BB gun is easily accurate enough to aim an hit a small target at 20 feet (7 paces).
3. BB skirmishes are fun for the people who attend them - mine and friends teenage kids go quite often. I'm not fully sure of the adults who go in all the gear, but there are often army people there practicing their skills too so it is not just "sad" people.
4. Skirmishes are regulated and very well organized; participants have to wear face protection. BBs can break the skin, and eye protection is essential. There have been people who have had chipped teeth from being hit, so full face is advisable for adults (mandatory for kids).
5. Skirmishes usually have BB velocity limits, probably 350 fps indoor to 450 fps outdoor, and they have equipment to check that.
6. The other thing about the dangers of taking out a BB gun in public is that they can be very realistic, enough to be used in robberies and suchlike - you really cannot tell the difference visually with some; for this reason, taking one out in public could lead to a very serious response from the police who may not be able to tell the difference from a distance. The authorities have attempted to have BB guns distinctively coloured, but that is no real benefit, as a criminal could paint a real gun that colour as a camouflage.

Looking at the projectile speed, ammunition velocities are often measured in feet per second (fps), with the speed of sound being 1100 fps (750 mph):

1. BBs are usually air powered and a typical BB can be around 300-400 fps, or 200-270 mph, but they can be faster; 600 fps is considered a lot, but they can even be supersonic (1100 fps).
2. In contrast a typical air rifle is around 600 fps, but they can also go up to supersonic (1100 fps).
3. A shotgun shoots at around 1200 fps.
4. A .22 rifle can do 1300 fps, and a military 7.62 is around 2350 fps.
5. A sniper rifle can be 3000 fps, with a range of 2+ miles.

In terms of being hit by a BB, imagine riding a superbike flat-out without a helmet and being hit in the face by a fly; one of them in the eye would not be pleasant.

keystone

jackieblack wrote: »

Any progress?

Yes there is - quite a bit - sorry to keep you in suspense. Been rushed off feet last 48 or so and still not stopped. Things moved forward with boy and parents Thursday/Friday. No complaints of racial overtones nor bullying BTW. However, further information emerged yesterday from another source which made part of the decision for me. Police involved by me yesterday at "report and log as incident" level including 2 of them here with self and daughter yesterday. Not yet (and still undecided) whether to escate to "complaint" level. BIB happy for that to be my decision BTW. Letter yesterday from MASH Team to say NFA as far as they are concerned. Sorry - got to rush - will be back this evening sometime with a full update.

Am aware there are some posts above I need to respond to since I was last here and will do so when I come back - just no time atm I'm afraid.

Cheers

muckybutt

prowla wrote: »

A selection of comments in response to various posts:

1. A BB gun is not a firearm; they are air powered, not propelled by an explosive charge.
2. A BB gun is easily accurate enough to aim an hit a small target at 20 feet (7 paces).
3. BB skirmishes are fun for the people who attend them - mine and friends teenage kids go quite often. I'm not fully sure of the adults who go in all the gear, but there are often army people there practicing their skills too so it is not just "sad" people.
4. Skirmishes are regulated and very well organized; participants have to wear face protection. BBs can break the skin, and eye protection is essential. There have been people who have had chipped teeth from being hit, so full face is advisable for adults (mandatory for kids).
5. Skirmishes usually have BB velocity limits, probably 350 fps indoor to 450 fps outdoor, and they have equipment to check that.
6. The other thing about the dangers of taking out a BB gun in public is that they can be very realistic, enough to be used in robberies and suchlike - you really cannot tell the difference visually with some; for this reason, taking one out in public could lead to a very serious response from the police who may not be able to tell the difference from a distance. The authorities have attempted to have BB guns distinctively coloured, but that is no real benefit, as a criminal could paint a real gun that colour as a camouflage.

Looking at the projectile speed, ammunition velocities are often measured in feet per second (fps), with the speed of sound being 1100 fps (750 mph):

1. BBs are usually air powered and a typical BB can be around 300-400 fps, or 200-270 mph, but they can be faster; 600 fps is considered a lot, but they can even be supersonic (1100 fps).
2. In contrast a typical air rifle is around 600 fps, but they can also go up to supersonic (1100 fps).
3. A shotgun shoots at around 1200 fps.
4. A .22 rifle can do 1300 fps, and a military 7.62 is around 2350 fps.
5. A sniper rifle can be 3000 fps, with a range of 2+ miles.

In terms of being hit by a BB, imagine riding a superbike flat-out without a helmet and being hit in the face by a fly; one of them in the eye would not be pleasant.

read #222 bb guns CAN be classed as firearms if they meet the criteria !

In response to 1) just because they don't use explosive charges doesn't mean they cant be classed as a firearm.
My .22 rifle is a firearm (non licenced ) - its air powered by compressed air to 200psi, if the bb gun was firing over the legal permitted psi / ft/lbs then it would then be classed as a firearm as it would be outside the legal requirements and it would need a firearms licence.
My .22 has been detuned from 30 ft/lbs to 11.6 ft/lbs thus taking it below me needing a firearms licence to own it, never the less it is still classed as a firearm, above 12 ft/lbs then I would need a licence.

paulineb_2

The only thing I know about BB guns is that if a child is found with one in school (and I appreciate that this wasnt at school), the policy is that police need to be informed, thats the policy at a school a relative teaches at and there was an incident where someone brought one into school from home.

If the person who fired the gun was under 16 I would imagine that the police would want to know whose gun it was and how they managed to have it on their possession.

LannieDuck

muckybutt wrote: »

The non emergency number is actually 101 !

Ooops, thank you