The infighting over Europe starts

Thrugelmir

GhIFA wrote: »

We know that a majority don't see it as the main issue facing the country.

Majority don't vote bother voting at elections.

Majority believe that growth alone will eradicate the budget deficit.

Europe is just a place for cheap holidays.

Sleepwalking springs to mind.

GhIFA

Majority don't vote bother voting at elections.

So why will they vote in a referendum? The same logic also diminishes the significance of the c25% that voted last week for UKIP then does it not?

Europe is just a place for cheap holidays.

Dismissing Europe as such kind of backs up the point I was making - most people don't see it particularly as an issue, despite assertions to the contrary, otherwise more would have voted UKIP last week.

Thrugelmir

GhIFA wrote: »

Dismissing Europe as such kind of backs up the point I was making - most people don't see it particularly as an issue, despite assertions to the contrary, otherwise more would have voted UKIP last week.

Europe is going to become an issue. The politicians can only kick the can for so long. Like the UK budget deficit. Many European countries are suffering challenges of their own. Even the core of the EU, the German\French axis is fraught with differences. The purpose of the EU was to bring harmony to a region that had been at war for centuries. At the current time appears to be doing the reverse. Causing increasing polarisation between nationalities, and resurrecting rifts that never were truly buried. Takes generations to erase the memories of brutal wars.

Graham_Devon

GhIFA wrote: »

We know that a majority don't see it as the main issue facing the country.

How do you know this?

Take me as an example. I didn't bother voting in the local elections, neither did my parents, neither did a few of my colleagues. Though we've all said we'd vote on a referendum (discussions surrounding the news in the office have happened).

If you are extrapolating votes from the local elections and then suggesting only the same people would vote in a referendum I would think you are majorly mistaken.

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

How do you know this?

Take me as an example. I didn't bother voting in the local elections, neither did my parents, neither did a few of my colleagues. Though we've all said we'd vote on a referendum (discussions surrounding the news in the office have happened).

If you are extrapolating votes from the local elections and then suggesting only the same people would vote in a referendum I would think you are majorly mistaken.

I'm not suggesting that only the same people would vote. But if it was that important an issue to people more would have a) voted and b) voted for UKIP. They didn't.

Similarly, there will be people who don't bother voting in any referendum which might be called.

Graham_Devon

GhIFA wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that only the same people would vote. But if it was that important an issue to people more would have a) voted and b) voted for UKIP. They didn't.

Similarly, there will be people who don't bother voting in any referendum which might be called.

Well I didn't have the choice to vote UKIP in my area. Therefore I saw no reason to vote. I didn't like any of the rest.

You are trying to put people into boxes where boxes don't apply.

Only a referendum would tell you the true feeling, and if it's such a none issue, why are so many so avidly against letting this none issue pass?

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well I didn't have the choice to vote UKIP in my area. Therefore I saw no reason to vote. I didn't like any of the rest.

You are trying to put people into boxes where boxes don't apply.

Only a referendum would tell you the true feeling, and if it's such a none issue, why are so many so avidly against letting this none issue pass?

I'd quite happily let it pass - there's no need for the distraction or cost that a referendum would entail just to appease a section of the Tory party on the back of a mid term protest vote for the current poster boy of a certain section of the media.

If people's priority is for a referendum then they will be able reflect that in their voting at the next general election in two years.

There are far more pressing needs that the government needs to be dealing with rather than a repeat of the in-fighting that went on post 97.

antrobus

Graham_Devon wrote: »

How do you know this?
...

Well, as I said before....

antrobus wrote: »

....
Europe appears to be a non-issue for most people.

In September (2011) 3% of people counted Europe as an important issue facing the country, which is typical of the last five years. When placed alongside issues like the economy, immigration, crime, health and unemployment people simply do not care about Europe.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4188

Graham_Devon

Well what about this, which tracks opinion on the referendum question and shows more people wish to leave that stay?

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/07/eu-referendum-paradox/

It's disingenuous to the point of being extreme to use a report which looks at what people see as the one most important thing facing the country and then suggesting people don't really care about the EU question.

The question was what is the most important thing. Not whether you would like a referendum or whether you would vote to remain or leave the EU.

Indeed, the very page you link to, in the first couple of paragraphs gives the answers as to how many people want the ability to vote on the issue.

Support is the most basic and simple to measure level of public opinion, and in the case of Europe is relatively straightforward. The British public tend to have a negative impression of the European Union – asked to rate their feelings towards it on a scale of 0 to 10, 38% say 0-3, 33% 4-6, 19% 7-10. 45% of people think that Britain’s membership of the EU is a bad thing, compared to 22% thinking it is a good thing. 50% think membership has had a negative effect on the UK, 29% a positive effect. While the figures are different depending on the questions asked, the same rough pattern normally emerges – putting it very crudely around a quarter of people are generally positive towards the EU, around half are suspicious or negative towards it.

I too, if asked what was the most important thing at the moment would rate our economy. That doesnt mean I do not wish to have a voice in a referendum on the EU.

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I too, if asked what was the most important thing at the moment would rate our economy. That doesnt mean I do not wish to have a voice in a referendum on the EU.

Which you'll get if the Tories win the next election.