The infighting over Europe starts

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So I'm not allowed a vote on the EU without having to give up my vote for who I wish to actually run the country day to day?

Simply because you and some other pro-EU people say so?

I'm flattered you think you won't be allowed a referendum on my say so.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It seems you are against a referendum (and you have made it known you are pro-EU several times) because it wastes money. Should I not be allowed a say on the money i think is wasted as being part of the EU?

All parties will include their approach to Europe in their manifesto - they have done since the '70's. Seems perfectly sensible to me - otherwise we'll end up voting on everything that the frothers decide is the only issue of the day.

The current voter apathy combined with some economic turmoil is a single issue frothers wet dream.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Please don't try and confuse a general eelection with a vote on Europe. Doing so will only split the vote to no overall control to the detriment of us all.

I can't help it if you find things confusing.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

I'm flattered you think you won't be allowed a referendum on my say so.



All parties will include their approach to Europe in their manifesto - they have done since the '70's. Seems perfectly sensible to me - otherwise we'll end up voting on everything that the frothers decide is the only issue of the day.

The current voter apathy combined with some economic turmoil is a single issue frothers wet dream.



I can't help it if you find things confusing.

Ahh, so were down to the nub of the issue - finally.

Anyone who want's a referendum, is a frother. You've decided so.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Hang on a second then.

Firstly you say I should vote for the conservatives if I want a referendum.

Then, upon being challenged by another poster, you say the referendum promise is all just party political posturing.

Surely now you can see the problem with your own advisc?

I'm not telling you to vote for anyone.

The closest you'll get to a referendum is if the conservatives win the next election (possible) AND David Cameron admits that his negotiating skills are sub par when negotiating with the EU (unlikely).

The promise of the referendum wasn't because David Cameron thought it was important that Graham_Devon had a say on EU membership but to try and unite his party through the election campaign.

So yes the conservatives have offered you a referendum and yes it's party posturing.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

I'm not telling you to vote for anyone.

The closest you'll get to a referendum is if the conservatives win the next election (possible) AND David Cameron admits that his negotiating skills are sub par when negotiating with the EU (unlikely).

The promise of the referendum wasn't because David Cameron thought it was important that Graham_Devon had a say on EU membership but to try and unite his party through the election campaign.

So yes the conservatives have offered you a referendum and yes it's party posturing.

I think you are confusing the promise of a referendum with the need for a referendum, as voted for by the people.

What people are saying, and what you appear to be missing is not that they are happy to have some vague promise of a referendum if you vote a certain way and if they gain full power and if David cameron is still PM at the time

What people like myself are asking for is a referendum, regardless of the party in power. It needs to be done ASAP with full and unbiased information funrished to voters.

That's what I would like. Thats what UKIP would like. That's what people but their muscle behind in the local elections.

It seems you are very much confused or purposely missing the point. You can say it won't happen as much as you like. However, the pressure is intensifying.

mcfisco

A Tory leader having to appease his far right back benchers and their heroes of the past over Europe?

Who saw that one coming?



same old, same old

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I think you are confusing the promise of a referendum with the need for a referendum, as voted for by the people.

You shouldn't confuse your's (or my) views on Europe as being indicative as the need (or not) for a referendum.

Most of the 'people' couldn't be arsed to vote in the local elections - seems like a non-issue for the majority - good news for the rest of us as we can decide for them.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Most of the 'people' couldn't be arsed to vote in the local elections - seems like a non-issue for the majority - good news for the rest of us as we can decide for them.

You don't know if it's a majority or a minority.

You are against people having the ability to have their say.

Until a vote is allowed, you cannot claim to know the numbers of the vote.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

You don't know if it's a majority or a minority.

You are against people having the ability to have their say.

Until a vote is allowed, you cannot claim to know the numbers of the vote.

They had an ability to have a say at the local elections - they didn't turn up.

You didn't either.

antrobus

wotsthat wrote: »

You shouldn't confuse your's (or my) views on Europe as being indicative as the need (or not) for a referendum.

A point repeatedly made by Anthony Wells on UKPollingreport is that people will always say they want a referendum on almost any subject you care to mention.

wotsthat wrote: »

...Most of the 'people' couldn't be arsed to vote in the local elections - seems like a non-issue for the majority - good news for the rest of us as we can decide for them.

Europe appears to be a non-issue for most people.

In September (2011) 3% of people counted Europe as an important issue facing the country, which is typical of the last five years. When placed alongside issues like the economy, immigration, crime, health and unemployment people simply do not care about Europe.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4188

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

You don't know if it's a majority or a minority.

We know that a majority don't see it as the main issue facing the country.