The infighting over Europe starts

Graham_Devon

GhIFA wrote: »

Which you'll get if the Tories win the next election.

If.

And that's unlikely. More likely to be another coalition.

Can you give me one reason why you are against people having a vote?

BobQ

Personally, I do not like every aspect of the EU but I do believe it should be more than a free trade area. Some market regulation and freedom of movement is also beneficial. I am not so keen on a single currency or political union.

The EU's economic issues will inevitably need to be addressed and it needs to change. Cameron like Thatcher will no doubt make an attempt to "re-negotiate" our involvement but based on his position (ie how to appease UKIP and his own right wingers) he will probably succeed in alienating us from the EU through confrontation and posturing.

I would prefer to see us participate in the changes that are going to happen anyway by engaging in a more constructive discussion.

mcfisco

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If.

And that's unlikely. More likely to be another coalition.

Can you give me one reason why you are against people having a vote?

The wall to wall nonsence and pure lies that would be spouted by sociopaths for weeks beforehand would be a powerful reason to persuade me it's not a good idea.

RJP33

GhIFA wrote: »

Dismissing Europe as such kind of backs up the point I was making - most people don't see it particularly as an issue, despite assertions to the contrary, otherwise more would have voted UKIP last week.

Given the EZ has been a massive drag on the UK economy for the past 2 years I think people do consider it an issue a lot more now than 2011.

Seeing what's happened in Cyprus is absolutely terrifying.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Take me as an example. I didn't bother voting in the local elections, neither did my parents, neither did a few of my colleagues. Though we've all said we'd vote on a referendum (discussions surrounding the news in the office have happened).

If you are extrapolating votes from the local elections and then suggesting only the same people would vote in a referendum I would think you are majorly mistaken.

If it's a major mistake to use the local elections as an indicator of voter apathy (whatever the issue) then how is a straw poll of you, your parents and a couple of office friends proof of anything?

People always say they'll do x, y & z but faced with the massive inconvenience of turning up at a polling station they don't bother.

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

If.

And that's unlikely. More likely to be another coalition.

Can you give me one reason why you are against people having a vote?

Can you give me one example of where I have said I am against people having a vote?

The Tories have said they will hold a referendum in the next parliament if they win the general election.

UKIP want out altogether, and, one would assume, will also be fielding general election.

Therefore for those for whom this is the over-riding issue, they will have the opportunity to vote either for a referendum, or to opt out altogether.

If the Europe question is the priority for as many people as you think it is then one of those parties will win the election.

Bit confused as to where you think anyone is being denied a vote. Also a bit confused as to why you're getting yourself so wound up about other countries when you don't seem particularly bothered with the government of your local area.......

Moby

mcfisco wrote: »

Not quite ...
“We must build a kind of United States of Europe.”

http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html

Yes ...I know but I'm judging him on his actions not his words.