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The infighting over Europe starts
Comments
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londonTiger wrote: »Turkey doesn't want to join the EU because then Turkey will become the holding cell of all EU immigration. Greek has serious issues with immigration paticualry from Iraq and Afghanistan caused by you know what.
There's also a far rigth movement that is being ignored. immigrants beaten up, and seriously wounded. Saw one footage of an immigrant who had his eyesgouged out. His eye socket was like an open cavaty. Supposedly down by greek far right. It was shocking to see.
Turkey is right to stay out of the EU. Britain, however, is not Turkey. Turkey has 80 million people and a young population. It straddles east and west and is building strong trade links with emerging markets who do not associate them with the land-grab/pillage style of development they've seen from both US/Europe and China. They don't need Europe; Europe needs them for their cheaper labor and affordable holidays (and as a buffer against the guys on the other side...).
I'm a foreigner living here (skilled migrant from a developed country) and my partner and I are planning our investments, but the uncertainty about the EU is stopping us from putting more money here. We have investments back home and are unwilling to transfer funds here if the UK-in-the-EU could turn into England-and-Wales-and-NI in 5 years.0 -
londonTiger wrote: »Turkey doesn't want to join the EU because then Turkey will become the holding cell of all EU immigration. Greek has serious issues with immigration paticualry from Iraq and Afghanistan caused by you know what.
There's also a far rigth movement that is being ignored. immigrants beaten up, and seriously wounded. Saw one footage of an immigrant who had his eyesgouged out. His eye socket was like an open cavaty. Supposedly down by greek far right. It was shocking to see.
Newsnight and Channel 4 news had quite a lot of coverage of the Greek problems late last year.
One story I remember was an Indian professor who was invited to the country was rounded up by the police and beaten up. His colleagues managed to get him out of the police cells.
Then the police were detaining non-White Americans and beating them up. When the US Embassy asked for an explanation the Greek government refused to give it.
In all cases the people involved had their passports on them.
The rest of the news broadcasters weren't interested.I'm not cynical I'm realistic
(If a link I give opens pop ups I won't know I don't use windows)0 -
Simple question...
Why are so many so against letting people have a say?
It can only be one of the following really...
A) You are worried it won't go the way YOU want
You think you know better than everyone else
There appears to be a lot of people against letting others have their say. Why so worried about it if actually, the majority (as we keep getting told) will vote to stay in the EU as it's so beneficial?0 -
another question ...
Why is a decision on radical change such as EU membership/referendum etc always promised after the next election. Could the conservatives say next November if they so choose?? I'd love to know if there is a genuine reason we are walking through treacle on this issue....0 -
another question ...
Why is a decision on radical change such as EU membership/referendum etc always promised after the next election. Could the conservatives say next November if they so choose?? I'd love to know if there is a genuine reason we are walking through treacle on this issue....
In this case, there is some merit in the tories saying they can't do it in this parliament.
They are, afterall, in a coalition, and the lib dems have been very vocal, especially since the surge in UKIP support that there is no way they will allow a referendum.
Labour would also vote against any move.
The tories could force the issue and force the lib dems to accept or break the coalition, however, lets face it, the tories don't want it either. So while they are telling the truth, it's a very convinient truth for them.
Would be better for the lib dems to call their bluff, state they are for democracy and allow it than it would for them to sit there and say, as a failing party, they know best and the people should not be allowed a say.
Instead, what they are saying is it's not right and they will not allow the public to have a say. They have no gone further and urged the tories not to "chase the UKIP voters", in a way which states "they don't know what they are talking about".
Silly, silly way of gaining public support.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Simple question...
Why are so many so against letting people have a say?
We have our say every five years when we elect parliament. Don't see much point in some of the proposals that have been suggested. For example the mandate referendum is dumb. Of couse government should be negotiating hard in europe every day of the week. What a waste of time.
Really, there should be a choice in the general election. We shouldn't have to go to the polls in referendums because politicians won't do their job and stand for what they really believe.“The ideas of debtor and creditor as to what constitutes a good time never coincide.”
― P.G. Wodehouse, Love Among the Chickens0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »The tories could force the issue and force the lib dems to accept or break the coalition, however, lets face it, the tories don't want it either. So while they are telling the truth, it's a very convinient truth for them.
.
At the next election there may some difficult choices for the electorate to make in order to achieve the savings to balance the budget. If one of the choice is an in/out referendum ( not suggesting trade links in this context). That'll help cut the deficit only right that the electorate should be given the options.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Simple question...
Why are so many so against letting people have a say?
Simple answer...
We don't govern by referendum in this country.
We have a representative democracy, where we vote for MP's to represent us.
Hold a vote tomorrow in parliament if you wish.
Otherwise if we all want to vote on Europe membership we can do so at the next election, by voting for a party promising to stay in or out of Europe.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »the lib dems have been very vocal,
Labour would also vote against any move.
lets face it, the tories don't want it either. .
There's a reason none of the major political parties, who at least have half a clue about the implications and risks, wants to leave Europe.
It would be catastrophic for Britain.
And they know it.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Simple answer...
We don't govern by referendum in this country.
We have a representative democracy, where we vote for MP's to represent us.
Hold a vote tomorrow in parliament if you wish.
Otherwise if we all want to vote on Europe membership we can do so at the next election, by voting for a party promising to stay in or out of Europe.
There are some matters that suit referendums and we have used them several times.
Presumably you would support the potential independence of Scotland to be decided by a parliament?0
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