Facts and Statistics

Graham_Devon

UK Foreign Office:

China is now building about two power stations every week, the top climate change official at the UK Foreign Office, John Ashton, has said.

CLAPTON

TruckerT wrote: »

I have simply stated that I do not believe UKIP's figure of 1 power station per week, nor Generali's figure of 2 power stations per week, nor the china.org's figure of 3 power stations per week.

Statistics are just numbers which can prove everything - power stations either exist or they do not exist, and there seems to be no evidence at all about the existence of China's expanding stock of power stations.

TruckerT

so what evidence would you believe?

your actual present at each and every power station in China?

the evidence of numerous new cities with electricity

the evidence of lots of new trains lines and airports, aircraft carriers etc.

the millions of rich Chinese tourists

do you really believe that China is not developing and is becoming the number economic power?

and do you believe that they are doing that with electricity?


do you doubt they produce lots of products sold on the world markets (many use electricity to produce them



do your own research

TruckerT

CLAPTON wrote: »

so what evidence would you believe?

I would believe a list of the addresses of the 50 or so power stations which China has built in the last year.

TruckerT

TruckerT

Graham_Devon wrote: »

UK Foreign Office:
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You should tell that to UKIP!

TruckerT

CLAPTON

TruckerT wrote: »

I would believe a list of the addresses of the 50 or so power stations which China has built in the last year.

TruckerT

do your own research.. I only know the names in Chinese!

Generali

TruckerT wrote: »

I have simply stated that I do not believe UKIP's figure of 1 power station per week, nor Generali's figure of 2 power stations per week, nor the china.org's figure of 3 power stations per week.

Statistics are just numbers which can prove everything - power stations either exist or they do not exist, and there seems to be no evidence at all about the scale of China's expanding stock of power stations.

TruckerT

To get this straight:

- You "won't accept" an extrapolation of other GDP figures to show how many power stations China might be opening
- You "won't accept" a quote from a British minister on the BBC
- You "won't accept" a quote from the GLPF (trustees include Lord Lawson)
- You "won't accept" a quote from the WRI (board includes the President of Bloomberg LP and a board member of Boston Consulting)

There seems little point in continuing really although it's a bit bizarre. Basically you are refusing to accept something because a UKIP pollie said it.

TruckerT

Generali wrote: »

To get this straight:

- You "won't accept" an extrapolation of other GDP figures to show how many power stations China might be opening
- You "won't accept" a quote from a British minister on the BBC
- You "won't accept" a quote from the GLPF (trustees include Lord Lawson)
- You "won't accept" a quote from the WRI (board includes the President of Bloomberg LP and a board member of Boston Consulting)

There seems little point in continuing really although it's a bit bizarre. Basically you are refusing to accept something because a UKIP pollie said it.

I take it that, like Clapton and me, you have been unable to find any 'facts' about all these power stations. I would guess that UKIP didn't even try.

There is a big difference between the three 'statistics' which have emerged in this thread (100%, 200%...).

They can't all be right, but they might easily all be wrong.

Why would I prefer a statistic to a collection of facts?

TruckerT

CLAPTON

TruckerT wrote: »

I take it that, like Clapton and me, you have been unable to find any 'facts' about all these power stations. I would guess that UKIP didn't even try.

There is a big difference between the three 'statistics' which have emerged in this thread (100%, 200%...).

They can't all be right, but they might easily all be wrong.

Why would I prefer a statistic to a collection of facts?

TruckerT

There is a breath taking amount of information about China's energy use and about it's plans, available on the internet if you choose to look.

I however, don't choose to look for your as you have more or less said you won't believe it and anyway it for UKIP to prove they aren't liars.

Graham_Devon

TruckerT wrote: »

Why would I prefer a statistic to a collection of facts?

TruckerT

Well, that's quite impossible. This is china and a lot of the power plants are illegal and off statistics as it were.

There is a plethora of statistics, including sources, pulled together here:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/China_and_coal

TruckerT

CLAPTON wrote: »

There is a breath taking amount of information about China's energy use and about it's plans, available on the internet if you choose to look.

I however, don't choose to look for your as you have more or less said you won't believe it and anyway it for UKIP to prove they aren't liars.

The purpose of the thread was to highlight a widespread tendency to depend on out-of-date and unchecked statistics, and a widespread tendency for people to believe (or invent) any statistic which appears to support their position, irrespective of where the statistic came from. As I said before, in the case of the 'one-power-station-per-month' figure, a likely source of the information would be Trivial Pursuits, or last year's Pub Quiz.

China's energy consumption is not particularly relevant.

TruckerT