Separated, how much should I provide?

ampersand

Jack - Thankyou for revised date+above post.
Wondered what had happened to 28 October, but didn't want to ask when you were clearly at low ebb.

You have a lot to do now in a rather short time.
Does it feel like another charge, both emotional and financial, or a small step towards that tunnel-end light? Strongly hoping for latter. Is there ANYTHING any one of us might practicably do?
re: 'So looks like I need to find an IMA did use one in the past need to find them'...was that one any good? Once again, can you seek trusted opinions/advice from colleagues? It is characteristic for judgment to become temporarily skewed under such relentless onslaught and manipulation of feelings as you have been subject to.

How is the flat>home transition going? Given that your new addy will have to be part of what is known to other side on new p/w, if not already, might this deepen to your daughter enjoying applying little touches?
Patty is right in this.

Have you taken the Volunteering over Christmas idea any further?

Just to continue with my nomb bossiness, healthy regular eating is a vital part of your armoury and essential for body/brain function and sensible sleep patterns. Okay? As if you didn't know these things...but they fly out the window under sustained stress, as we all know.

Please don't text ex any more. I find this perplexing. Dignified radio silence gives nothing away. It's akin to troll feeding when you are repeatedly drawn in to dance on the head of her pin. Make at least one NICE Jack thing to do over the w/e.

I find I think of your Dad, in whom hurt and ache over this must also feature. Were your children close to your parents?

JackRS

ampersand wrote: »

Jack - Thankyou for revised date+above post.
Wondered what had happened to 28 October, but didn't want to ask when you were clearly at low ebb.

You have a lot to do now in a rather short time.
Does it feel like another charge, both emotional and financial, or a small step towards that tunnel-end light? Strongly hoping for latter. Is there ANYTHING any one of us might practicably do?
re: 'So looks like I need to find an IMA did use one in the past need to find them'...was that one any good? Once again, can you seek trusted opinions/advice from colleagues? It is characteristic for judgment to become temporarily skewed under such relentless onslaught and manipulation of feelings as you have been subject to.

How is the flat>home transition going? Given that your new addy will have to be part of what is known to other side on new p/w, if not already, might this deepen to your daughter enjoying applying little touches?
Patty is right in this.

Have you taken the Volunteering over Christmas idea any further?

Just to continue with my nomb bossiness, healthy regular eating is a vital part of your armoury and essential for body/brain function and sensible sleep patterns. Okay? As if you didn't know these things...but they fly out the window under sustained stress, as we all know.

Please don't text ex any more. I find this perplexing. Dignified radio silence gives nothing away. It's akin to troll feeding when you are repeatedly drawn in to dance on the head of her pin. Make at least one NICE Jack thing to do over the w/e.

I find I think of your Dad, in whom hurt and ache over this must also feature. Were your children not close to your parents?

Thanks, not text ex in a long time. Found my son had posted this on his twitter :

'gd one "dad"! blackmailing me isn't going to getme to talk to you! Absolute idiot!' 2nd Oct.

then this 'Life is looking up for me dads still a !!!! my new job a week today and I've booked my driving test! Life is good 5th Oct.

Well my daughter i wouldn't say was close but both daughter and Ex went to see my parents 2 Sundays back.

I really suffering at the moment feel really anxious and ill, took the sleeping tablets last night after a sad evening following a chat with my daughter. The guys are going for a curry and want me to join them tonight which is what I should do but really don't feel well enough and I'm rubbish company at the mo. I guess I need some counciling like everyone is telling me.

ampersand

Jack - curry won't help, good company can, BUT is this good company atm? - notwithstanding that some may see 'cheering Jack up' as a mission statement.

Your son's current immature/wanna wanna mindset is now there for the world to see, another reason to use social n/w's judiciously i.e. before it uses the user to his or her eternal regret! I don't bother with it, apart from occasional signing of petitions and similar.
For so many, it's just another addiction.
One day, all willing, he will come to see himself as he was and a new generation will know and love grand-dad Jack as he clearly is.

'after a sad evening following a chat with my daughter' is the point at which you need to put on a jacket, go out the door, walk round the block...ANYTHING, even on auto-pilot It alters mindset and brain receptors. You then come back in[you've left radio on for Voice - r4, r5, r4extra, r5 extra, r6 music], put kettle on or pour a glass, pick up book or kindle, check your hyacinth. Any rootlets growing yet?

When did you last visit your local Library, if ever?

It's a time for new ways Jack, false steps and learning curves included, BUT THEY ARE NOT WRONG THINGS, NOR DO THEY HARM YOU, OR HAVE A STAKE IN SEEING YOU FAIL.
You know this one, I'm sure , by WH Davies:

Leisure

What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.

No time to stand beneath the boughs
And stare as long as sheep or cows.

No time to see, when woods we pass,
Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass.

No time to see, in broad daylight,
Streams full of stars, like skies at night.

No time to turn at Beauty's glance,
And watch her feet, how they can dance.

No time to wait till her mouth can
Enrich that smile her eyes began.

A poor life this is if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.

Make a little bit of time this w/e Jack, please.
Also, practicality - rather than being out tonight, make a potential IMA list to winnow. Look at poss. porperties: you have a lot to do in just over a fortnight.
I want to say 'flush the sleeping tabs away', but know they can be a good crutch until the damage heals, but you will do this when you suddenly realise you've forgotten to take them a few times.

Say MYOB right back:D. Thinking of you.
############
Have to go out this afternoon, but will be back later.

Caroline_a

Oh dear Jack, that son of yours is showing himself up, isn't he? Personally I would respond by not sending any more money for driving lessons/test etc. He'll probably fail first time round anyway, in which case with his new job he'll be able to pay for his lessons himself. And if by chance he passes, is he then expecting you to provide a car for him, complete with insurance and tax?

That'll be a no I hope!

19lottie82

Jack, I know it's hard but try not to worry about your sons tweets. He's young, angry, confused and all "his" opinions of you are based on the "info" that his mother has drip fed him.

Try to maintain contact with him (odd text / letter / card), even if he doesn't want it at the moment, you'll both be glad of it in the future.

And go out for a curry and a couple of jars with your mates, I bet you will have a better time than you expect! What have you got to lose?

kelpie35

Oh Jack, I am so sorry to hear how your son is miscalling you.

You are, and have been a supportive parent and should keep that to the forefront of your mind.

If you enjoy the company of the people who have invited you out, go for it, but if on the other hand they will just talk about the problems you are experiencing at the moment, then I would give it a miss.

You have been given a big task to achieve in a short period of time, but I have every confidence in you, that you will achieve what is required of you. You have not let anyone down, that is not in your nature.

Only use the sleeping tablets as a last resort, as I know you will do.

Keep strong and take care of yourself, we, on here are all rooting for you.

justme111

Time for walking in the rain ?
It does help. If you don't feel like it ask a friend to kick your butt out of the house by force making sure you wear your waterproof jacket on (if you have not had to sell it already to pay debts or gives you his if you had )

JackRS

ampersand wrote: »

Jack - curry won't help, good company can, BUT is this good company atm? - notwithstanding that some may see 'cheering Jack up' as a mission statement.

Your son's current immature/wanna wanna mindset is now there for the world to see, another reason to use social n/w's judiciously i.e. before it uses the user to his or her eternal regret! I don't bother with it, apart from occasional signing of petitions and similar.
For so many, it's just another addiction.
One day, all willing, he will come to see himself as he was and a new generation will know and love grand-dad Jack as he clearly is.

'after a sad evening following a chat with my daughter' is the point at which you need to put on a jacket, go out the door, walk round the block...ANYTHING, even on auto-pilot It alters mindset and brain receptors. You then come back in[you've left radio on for Voice - r4, r5, r4extra, r5 extra, r6 music], put kettle on or pour a glass, pick up book or kindle, check your hyacinth. Any rootlets growing yet?

When did you last visit your local Library, if ever?

It's a time for new ways Jack, false steps and learning curves included, BUT THEY ARE NOT WRONG THINGS, NOR DO THEY HARM YOU, OR HAVE A STAKE IN SEEING YOU FAIL.
You know this one, I'm sure , by WH Davies:

Leisure

What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.

No time to stand beneath the boughs
And stare as long as sheep or cows.

No time to see, when woods we pass,
Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass.

No time to see, in broad daylight,
Streams full of stars, like skies at night.

No time to turn at Beauty's glance,
And watch her feet, how they can dance.

No time to wait till her mouth can
Enrich that smile her eyes began.

A poor life this is if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.

Make a little bit of time this w/e Jack, please.
Also, practicality - rather than being out tonight, make a potential IMA list to winnow. Look at poss. porperties: you have a lot to do in just over a fortnight.
I want to say 'flush the sleeping tabs away', but know they can be a good crutch until the damage heals, but you will do this when you suddenly realise you've forgotten to take them a few times.

Say MYOB right back:D. Thinking of you.
############
Have to go out this afternoon, but will be back later.

I've not used the tablets for weeks just tried them last night as i was wired and suffering.

JackRS

Caroline_a wrote: »

Oh dear Jack, that son of yours is showing himself up, isn't he? Personally I would respond by not sending any more money for driving lessons/test etc. He'll probably fail first time round anyway, in which case with his new job he'll be able to pay for his lessons himself. And if by chance he passes, is he then expecting you to provide a car for him, complete with insurance and tax?

That'll be a no I hope!

Yeah I paid for Octobers but not sure what I'm doing about next month. Still good to hear he's got a job. i won't be buying anyone a car I've a mounting credit card debt to clear first.

Hobbyhorse15

This thread is so large it is impossible to follow but I do feel that you are being misled by some very biased opinions and they aren't helping you.

I accept you want to be fair and I understand you feel some guilt and responsibility for the situation that's arisen and I totally stand by that and I think a lot of your posts demonstrate that.

First off there seem to be people who want to 'get away with giving the least to their families'. In my experience those people aren't just mean with money. At the same time they often don't deny themselves.

Then you have people who were 'left in the lurch, had to survive and provide for their children' and think that everyone else should too because they had to when really the system has let them down.

If you have an actuary involved then there's a lot of money involved and pensions can be complicated. Very few people need an actuary involved.

In your marriage you've presumably agreed that one of you will work to bring money into the whole family and it is therefore not your money it is the family's money. Nor did the children only get 20%, your wife 10% and you the rest. Your wife worked for this familly's benefit unpaid for 24 years and very likely so that you would be free to pursue your job in a way you couldn't if you had to be at the out of school club to pick your kids up at 6pm, etc. You both knew that this would seriously disadvantage one person if the marriage ended.

Of course she's going to fight! Who wouldn't?

Everyone must realise that this woman's world has been cut from under her and yes she must adapt to something that's been forced on her and I think it's clear she isn't doing that too well and may be that is to punish you to a degree.

It must also be clear that in this day and age she is not going to get a job that pays well and nor are your children. Do you want the best for them or do you want them to experience hardship just because other people tell you to or because their children had to?

The fact is that because you have an income you are best placed to pay your rent/mortgage, bills etc and they aren't.

Think about the money in the house, think about your income and realistically what your needs and wants are. And the pension. Plus your respective ages and your realistic futures. Why should she after 24 years hard graft bringing up your family, caring for you, etc be not only dumped but have no income, pension or much of a future? After all who can afford to retrain and who at her time of life is going to get a decent job.

Realistically, you should have both prepared for this by discussing the fact that in say 20 years you could divorce and that she needed to retrain for a career, you'd sort out decent childcare, cleaner, share cooking and other chores and set up her pension. Sadly that wasn't done and she's the one in the s**t

You both relied on the promises that the other made - unfortunately one of you is more reliant on those promises than the other.

Course you shouldn't be living hand to mouth but the fact is that courts try to be fair to both parties taking into account their current circumstances and their potential. She realistically has little potential.

Her solicitor has presumably advised her on the money facts to pursue a certain route. We haven't been privy to her side of the story. In my experience she will ask for more expecting to settle at a lesser figure. Yours will advise offering least amount but knowing it will be higher and hoping that she won't get a huge amount more.

You know what the lifestyle of the family was and what her expenses are.

Your relationship with your wife and children is damaged probably beyond repair. That's the real crime here and your son has been insulted on this site and you've stood by. How do you think your son feels about you and why do you think that is.

Some people will tell you he's drip fed by his mother. What rubbish! Of course he's not drip fed. He can see perfectly well how this break up has damaged the family, his sister and himself. Probably most of it caused by people telling you to stop paying for lessons, etc. What kid is going to see that as anything but personal?

My opinion: sort things out with your children now - ignore anyone who tells you to keep them short of money. Don't. Can promise you that never ends well.

You wife is going to get child benefits for a negligible amount of time.

Your wife's worry is personal security and her future and you need to address that. You need to look at the figures fairly. She isn't going to get a good job - ever. She needs a pension and unless you have a massive house that she can downsize from that enables her to have the children live with her then giving her the house isn't enough to cover housing and future pension. A one bed flat doesn't cut it.

As to spousal maintenance - well that's harder and if she were 25 and capable of retraining fine - a short time to cover retraining. At 50ish a bit harder. You could try agreeing a time length or until remarriage/cohabitation.

In short - stop relying on other people - many of whom will only be happy when your wife is working in a care home on minimum wage 50 hours a week and your kids are wearing second hand clothes.

Sort your kids and look properly at the figures then speak to your solicitor frankly about what is fair rather than what you can get away with. I can promise you (I work in family law) most will respond and probably ask a barrister for an opinion. If the offer is fair you will be able to point out that the money wasted on court costs could be used to benefit your family again and you might start to repair those relationships. That's priceless.

You might even get on with your ex 5 years down the line. However, I wouldn't count on it. Most people dislike others for much less than ripping their lives apart.

Good luck to you Jack and while it might feel I'm getting at you I'm actually trying to put you in touch with the reality of the situation for your wife and children.