Separated, how much should I provide?

Gigervamp

I noticed you mention that come next summer, she won't be getting the CM. Surely she shouldn't be getting it now, but the grandparents should be as your son is living with them?

My daughter lived with my mum for a couple of years. I'd had to move away, but my daughter was attending a performing arts school, so wanted to stay there.
My mum had the child benefit for her, and daughter's dad (who was my ex) paid the CM straight to my mum.

JackRS

Gigervamp wrote: »

I noticed you mention that come next summer, she won't be getting the CM. Surely she shouldn't be getting it now, but the grandparents should be as your son is living with them?

My daughter lived with my mum for a couple of years. I'd had to move away, but my daughter was attending a performing arts school, so wanted to stay there.
My mum had the child benefit for her, and daughter's dad (who was my ex) paid the CM straight to my mum.

I don't know the arrangement she has with her parents for him. They are wealthy and have loaned her money to help pay her legal costs so I expect they don't ask for much to cover food. She probably covers other costs such as clothes and transport. There's no sign in her last 3 months bank statement for anything. Anyway I am currently paying her voluntary maintenance at double CSA value it's up to her how sh manages it.

Moving forward she wants maintenance to continue.

I'll try to summarise the mediation discussion later.

JackRS

Trying to summaries the content of yesterdays mediation is very difficult so I’ll try to explain the proposals made and discussed. In essence she wants more than I proposed and maintenance.

I showed that there were properties with 3 bedrooms in the current area for £175K and even on south coast available at £190K asking so I proposed it was possible to purchase a property to meet her needs for the amount I was offering and suggested that in a court hearing I could make it clear that 175K could buy something outright. She obviously said that didn’t match what she wanted, I recognised that it’s not what she wanted but it was up to her to find a way to add to that sum with what she wanted.

The mediator then suggested if she had a small mortgage as well she wouldn't have enough for living costs assuming she had a job earning £1000/m.

I’ll explain the next proposal and discussion on a new post.:

First proposal I made follows, I did point out that giving away 2/3 of the assets was something I wasn’t comfortable with as I would have to take on a large debt in a mortgage and although we’d both be able to get suitable housing I would be at a disadvantage as mine would be purchased with a large loan commitment. I also pointed out that she’s not been making best use of the time available, she could have spent the last year on a full time course, doing voluntary admin work, registering with agencies temp work etc. She’s been down south staying with her parents for the last 2 weeks having days out etc. She says she’s seen some jobs down there but hasn’t applied because situation not clear with living etc.

The following was tabled in an excel document so a bit easier to follow but haven’t been able to work out to paste on this so pasted into word then this then had to mess about with it so makes a bit of sense.


1. FMH sold
2. All debts discharged
3. Lump sum payment to ex Mrs JackRS of £174,281 (based on sale £300k see calculation below)
4. Balance of net proceeds to JackRS (£99,624.48) (3 & 4 adjust based on sale price)
5. Thereafter a clean break as to capital, maintenance and pension sharing.
6. JackRS contnues to pay CSA for son at £650/m final payment June 2015


House sale expectation £300,000 (a)

Liabilities JackRS -£15,620.26 (b)
Liabilities ex Mrs. JackRS-£10,474.34 (c)
Liabilities combined-£26,094.60 (d = b+c)

Net assets House - Liabilities £273,905.40 (e = a+d)
Net Assets 50/50 = £136,952.70 (f = 1/2 x e)

Pension JackRS £277,259.66 (g)
Pension ex Mrs. JackRS £53,290.33 (h)
Pension combined £330,549.99 (i =g+h)
Pension 50/50 = £165,275.00 (j = 1/2 x i)

JackRS's pension share to ex Mrs JackRS to achieve 50/50 £111,984.67 (k = j - h)
Cash equivalent to replace pension share £37,328.22 (l = 1/3 x k)

ex Mrs. JackRS Net assets share plus payment in lieu of pension share £174,280.92 (m = f + l)
JackRS Net assets share less payment in lieu of pension share £99,624.48 (n = f -l)

gele

Jack, I know you have more to post but I think your first proposal was very fair.
She can get a house on the coast [mortgage free]and gets 50% of your pension. I, and most others reading this would happily take this. Id like to say I cant believe she wont consider it but being honest Im not surprised. She wont do because she knows to maintain the standard of living she has now she'll have to get a job and she clearly has no intention of doing that if she can avoid it
I am surprised that the mediator brushed aside the fact that what the ex wants re house isn't what she needs. Why is it assumed right that she gets what she wants. Are you getting what you want? I doubt it.
Court is getting closer in my opinion but no judge could say you haven't tried [unlike ex who hasn't budged] That should count for something.
Im waiting with interest to see proposal 2 ! :eek:

JackRS

gele wrote: »

Jack, I know you have more to post but I think your first proposal was very fair.
She can get a house on the coast [mortgage free]and gets 50% of your pension. I, and most others reading this would happily take this. Id like to say I cant believe she wont consider it but being honest Im not surprised. She wont do because she knows to maintain the standard of living she has now she'll have to get a job and she clearly has no intention of doing that if she can avoid it
I am surprised that the mediator brushed aside the fact that what the ex wants re house isn't what she needs. Why is it assumed right that she gets what she wants. Are you getting what you want? I doubt it.
Court is getting closer in my opinion but no judge could say you haven't tried [unlike ex who hasn't budged] That should count for something.
Im waiting with interest to see proposal 2 ! :eek:

Sorry maybe I've not made it clear but giving an extra £37K was in lieu of my pension share so first proposal was was £175K and clean break on everything, point 5 on my offer repeated below:

'5. Thereafter a clean break as to capital, maintenance and pension sharing.'

kelpie35

Oh Jack it just breaks my heart to see what you are having to go through.

I really think the only option left to you is to go to court.

I know it is so much money to go down that route but for your sake I think that you might have a fairer outcome.

Please keep strong and there will be some light at the end of this dark tunnel.

JackRS

The response to this first proposal was obviously not to accept as her solicitor had told her that the pension should be more like 2/3 the transfer value and that the transfer value should be the latest one now not from last year. I said well 1/3 was what I was informed and that last summers transfer value was appropriate as it was the pension that had been accumulated while we cohabited and actually several months since we were separated.

We discussed her having an additional £37K (2/3) this would mean she’d have £211K and I’d have £63K (assuming house sold £300K). It was written on the flip chart, I said I couldn’t accept that as it was disproportionate and unfair.

I then made my alternative proposal which gave her a potential of £184K (if FMH sold at £300K). However this proposal would have my share fixed at £90K whatever the final sale price was.

This was also rejected.

1. FMH sold
2. All debts discharged
3. Lump sum payment to JackRS of £90,000 fixed (see calculation below)
4. Balance of net proceeds to ex Mrs. JackRS (£183, 905)
5. Thereafter a clean break as to capital, maintenance and pension sharing
6. JackRS contnues to pay CSA for son at £650/m final payment June 2015

duchy

Frankly Jack I'd go to court and let her grumble she wants a better property and look unreasonable.

The fact she has turned down every compromise will speak volumes.

CruisingSaver

Jack you might want to edit your son's name out of your last post.


I'm sorry the mediation didn't go well yesterday and as others have said it looks like court is your only option now, unfortunately. Your ex doesn't appear to want to compromise one iota

JackRS

We then got into discussion about maintenance and how her solicitor had advised her to walk out if I wasn’t giving her maintenance on top. To which I suggested that in that case we go to court but that would take more money out of the pot.

We reviewed her need for maintenance especially beyond when I’d stop paying CSA and she’d stop receiving tax credits she’s be around £1000/m worse off. We didn’t review what level of maintenance she required but established her monthly needs were around £1300 without having to pay a mortgage. She never made a proposal of what she wanted as a settlement but I understand it to be £225K plus maintenance. I can imagine her minimum requirement from next summer will be around £500/m provided I agree to providing around £211K so she can buy mortgage free.

Clearly this is not acceptable to me but I can’t see her compromising.
Mediator will sumarise the points discussed and we would need to decide if mediation should continue.

The mediator also discussed the practical steps for the future as the house hasn’t sold. The ex mentioned that she wanted to rent out the house so she could use the money to rent in the south but I I said I’d expect to receive half the income from renting out. I also said renting out would cause potential problems and delays in terms of selling. I could easily imagine that if it was rented out and she got all the money then she would be better off receiving the income from renting with net profit against what she is paying to rent on a smaller property. Therefore that could carry on for many years, which is why I wouldn’t agree to renting out and her receiving all the income.

During the discussion she at many points referred to me not wanting a nice house for her and my children to live to which I also made it clear that I wanted those things for them but not at the total cost to my future and that she has to make a contribution to getting what she wants.

My next step is to ask my solicitor to make an estimate on what a court might decide based on the facts and evidence.

I’ve not received replies from my children after I text them before the mediation I guess she has spoken to them telling how unreasonable I am being not wanting them to live somewhere nice. I guess that goes with the territory.

I got a rent review letter that the appropriate parties will visit rental on 24th September to assess appropriate rental.

I also receive eviction notice from the landlords solicitor giving me notice to vacate by 31st October, so gives me another 2 months to get sorted.