storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

Cardew

Mogz wrote: »

The large majority of oil-rads currently installed in peoples homes, are not fitted with thermostats that perform the same function as you imply. It is a "thermostat" to keep the immersion heater from going constantly. It does not maintain a room temperature. They turn off to stop the rad from overheating if it is left on - that is all! I hear my oil filled rads clicking off when my house is 12 degrees, as it was this morning. (I'd been away for a week).

Don't agree with you I am afraid. I have 2 old cheap oil filled rads and 3 old convector heaters. All have ambient air thermostats. To stop an oil filled rad from overheating they have a 'Thermal cut out'. See:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Heating_Index/Oil_Filled_Radiators/index.html

Granted new rads do tend to have a room thermostat built in but what good is one of these when its attached to the heat source? Not smart.....

So in that case your argument will be that Thermostatic Radiator Valves(TRVs) fitted to CH radiators are useless? Are these not fitted to the heat source?

To clarify, my post was aimed to describe old but functional oil rads with one of the rotary dials on them - they do not serve the purpose you imply. There really are millions of the things out there - and they go on for 20 years if you dont waggle the rotary dial too often.

The only 7 day timers I could bear sticking on the wall of my lounge in plain view are intended for light switches but can only actuate up to 600mA or thereabouts. I have yet to find a 6 amp contactor that would fit behind a light switch timer in a one gang uk backbox. If anyone knows of one then please enlighten me!

There are simply masses that will cope with loads of 3kW. Some oil filled radiators have their own built in timers - see Diplex link above.

http://www.lyco.co.uk/Business-Supplies/Electrical-Supplies/Plugs,-Adapters,-Controllers-and-Timers/Programmable-Timers/sc1576/p457.aspx

http://www.bgelectrical.co.uk/master/Plugs_and_Adaptors.html

I fitted one timer on my 3kW immersion heater.

This is a remote control set of 3 timers that each handle 13 amps for £20

http://www.sparksdirect.co.uk/remote-control-switch-set-p-14210.html?zenid=nu2fh6vocopm9jq26t4dibgnv5

So for a few pounds you can set up a very functional 'control system' with timers, thermostats, remote control.

And you can take the system with you when you move!

stevehead

Mogz wrote: »

* This "100%" is quoted by many people and is correct in terms of oil rads and panel heaters, but not in terms of fan heaters, as not only do their elements glow wasting energy producing light, they also use a fan to move the heat around, so not 100% of the electricity is being used to create heat energy. Aircon units have a fan and an element in them, just like a fan heater.

I think you'll find the glow from barfires / fanheater elements is only in the order of a couple of lumens so less that a watt for making the light. The fan motor will be worse at around 25 watts.

Aircon units don't have a element in them, they have a Heat Exchanger - a very different animal.

Mogz

Cardew, thanks for the links - just to clarify the Glen oil filled rad 3rd item down on that TLC page is what I have in every room of my house (all 4 of them!). I have the 1.2kw Item instead however, but as far as regulating the temperature, if they are some form of Room Thermostat I can assure you they dont work very well!

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GE2155.html


stevehead, very good point, sorry for misinformation.

Fire_Fox

This seems like the right place to seek help .... I have read through some of the thread but some of the information is as bit over my head (!) or does not seem to relate to my situation. My query is about heating but it might be best to 'set the scene' first?

I live in a north-facing two bedroom flat with decent double glazing. The flat is all electric, with an Economy 7 meter, but has Dimplex heaters with a mesh front (can't see anything similar on their website) which I am told are not storage heaters. We are with Scottish Power which is the cheapest supplier in our area, and averaged 11.5 kwh per day from September to now with only about 40% of usage at night.

We put the washing machine and immersion on overnight, and have a power saving plug on the TV/ DVD. The lights are on for a lot of the day as it is so dark, and the TV is on whenever Mr. Fire Fox is home! I can only access the electricity meter every few months (in the basement) so can't keep a really close eye on what we are using and when.

My partner and I both work shifts, and I am a student so we are in and out all day. We did not use the heating at all the first two winters to save money, but this year we have been freezing. Mr. Fire Fox has taken to wearing his hat indoors and I am always in a bodywarmer and often sit under a blanket!

We have to open the windows daily due to condensation which obviously wastes heat, but we maintain 10C just from our neighbours. This year we have switched the fan oven on with the door open for an hour in the afternoon, and again late in the evening. This manages to maintain the temperature around 15C in the combined sittting room/ kitchen: we do not heat any other area. As a result of using the oven and a price rise our bill has increased by about half.

I am fed up of being cold all the time AND still paying through the nose. I would consider replacing the Economy 7 meter, or using the Dimplex heater instead of the oven, or buying a new (?storage) heater just for this room. But I don't want to spend the money for no extra benefit. Can anyone advise in plain English how best to get either more heat or spend a bit less? We don't have the option of insulating the building any better.

Thanks in advance.

Mogz

As a fellow electric heating sufferer, I can only recommend that you get gas central heating installed.

I have failed to find a way to get my heating bill to reduce, favouring instead the "paying through the nose" approach. I would suggest that the oven is a novel but not 100% efficient method of heating the building so perhaps some oil rads would be a better idea. The cost though, will be high, no matter what, and the oven method wont be all that inefficient (would you believe!!)

A touch of wasted light and the wattage of the fan is the only wastage there. A mere speck on the windscreen of the heating elements colossal limousine of consumption.

Cardew

Fire_Fox wrote: »

We are with Scottish Power which is the cheapest supplier in our area, and averaged 11.5 kwh per day from September to now with only about 40% of usage at night.

We have to open the windows daily due to condensation which obviously wastes heat, .

Two points.

At 40% usage at night you are probably marginal for breaking even on Economy 7. You need to sit down and work out if it is cheaper to get a 'normal' tariff.

You most certainly not need to open windows to get rid of condensation. Just buy a cheap dehumidifier.

Have you considered getting an Air Source Heat Pump?

Fire_Fox

Cardew wrote: »

Two points.

At 40% usage at night you are probably marginal for breaking even on Economy 7. You need to sit down and work out if it is cheaper to get a 'normal' tariff.

You most certainly not need to open windows to get rid of condensation. Just buy a cheap dehumidifier.

Have you considered getting an Air Source Heat Pump?

Thanks for your help.

I did the sums for getting rid of the Economy 7 a year or so ago and we would have broken even on the energy, but would have had to pay for a new meter. I will do the maths again for my recent bill.

We have considered a dehumidifier, but was concerned about the running costs on my expensive day rate electricity. Unless they are virtually silent I could not have it on at night - it's a small flat and I have insomnia!

I don't know what an Air Source Heat Pump is but will Google it!

Cardew

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Thanks for your help.

I did the sums for getting rid of the Economy 7 a year or so ago and we would have broken even on the energy, but would have had to pay for a new meter. I will do the maths again for my recent bill.

We have considered a dehumidifier, but was concerned about the running costs on my expensive day rate electricity. Unless they are virtually silent I could not have it on at night - it's a small flat and I have insomnia!

I don't know what an Air Source Heat Pump is but will Google it!

I think you will find that the price of off-peak electricity on E7 has soared on most tariffs in the last 12 months, not long ago my 'break even' point was under 30% - now it is over 55%.

I believe a dehumidifier will cost less to run than opening windows in winter.
Initially they will run quite long periods as the fabric of your flat and furniture will have absorbed moisture - but after a while you will not nat to run it for so long.

Plenty of posts on this forum about ASHPs.

Fire_Fox

Thanks again.

I have plugged my figures into a price comparison site but without ticking the E7 button. There are no tariffs cheaper than my present one, but it's only about a £40 a year difference. We do have very bad condensation, I can use half a kitchen roll on a cold morning! But I religiously open the windows so we have only the tiniest bit of mould. I do think it is damp in the bedroom by the window as my clothes often feel clammy.

My Dimplex heaters are radiant panel heaters I think - I have now found something similar online. It seems that this might be cheaper to run than the fan oven because of the energy wasted by moving the fan? I had the heater on tonight as an experiment and it took two hours to get up to a decent temperature on the highest setting. I think I need to rearrange the furniture somehow!

Mogz

Radiant panels dont seem to work anywhere near as well as oil filled rads. Can't explain why but they just seem to be awful! I just replaced two panel rads with equivalent powered oil rads and they perform far better.

To give you some comfort, Last night I was running 6,500 watts of oil filled rads in my 2 bed flat for 5 hours and was still wearing a scarf and fleece by 11pm last night when I went to bed.

This is a combination of being on the ground floor of a two floor maisonette (ground and first), and having an upstairs nieghbour who is away and has left the heating off.

So dont feel so bad! I'm paying a fortune and its still not working.........