storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

isobel81

Be careful - it sounds like they might be a bit like the Kalirel ones I made the mistake of having installed.....

amtrakuk

isobel81 wrote: »

Hi Amtrakuk (and anyone else considering Kalirel heaters!)

I watched The Hippy Shopper on YouTube too and cringed knowing how many people are going to watch her and take her advice......

I think I am right in saying that she had only just had them installed when she made and posted that vid though....in which case she hadn't yet seen the proof of her claims ie her electricity bill and was therefore unwittingly doing Kalirel's dirty work for them!!

I wish I had a webcam and was more technologically minded! But I will do my best to spread the word on forums like this so that others don't make the same mistake.....

Good point, If she has just had them installed how does she know they are alot more efficient? If you want to go down the electric heating route go for something < £50 from argos, theres quite a few oil filled radiators there.

amtrakuk

isobel81 wrote: »

Hi Amtrakuk (and anyone else considering Kalirel heaters!)

I watched The Hippy Shopper on YouTube too and cringed knowing how many people are going to watch her and take her advice......

I think I am right in saying that she had only just had them installed when she made and posted that vid though....in which case she hadn't yet seen the proof of her claims ie her electricity bill and was therefore unwittingly doing Kalirel's dirty work for them!!

I wish I had a webcam and was more technologically minded! But I will do my best to spread the word on forums like this so that others don't make the same mistake.....

"These AMAZING heaters might look like ordinary radiators but they are quite EXTRAORDINARY and the potential for low running costs and energy conservation is ASTOUNDING! So much so that for many people in Germany, Austria and increasingly in UK as well they are often used in preference to central heating or the equivalent Economy 7 storage heating."

This is a load of nonsence. Whatever electric heating method you use, it is no more or less efficient than any other. There is no magic radiator that generates electricity from no where.

I can guarantee you can put a 3Kw Elka heater along side an old 3 bar electric fire and they will use the same heat and use the same amount of electricity.

ianking

Someone in this (very) long thread asked about costs for running with storage heaters. We are all electric except for the cooker!

My total energy bill is £77pm electric, £2pm gas. Following the rate increases, I expect these to increase by 19% (elec) and 30% (gas). We are on an E7 tariff. We don't use that amount of gas... they can't DD lower than that so they end up refunding the excess.

We have a 3-bedroom detached house. It was built with gas central heating. BUT the previous owner ripped it all out & put in storage heaters and an immersion heater. That was before we bought the property in 1983 (there wasn't much else on the market at the time!). The storage heaters started to go wrong shortly after; around about the time we started a family . Young family = no money, so as the heaters went wrong, I replaced them with modern slim-line Creda storage heaters (thermostatically controlled); the last one being replaced about 15 years ago (they have given no trouble at all). There is no other heating apart from an electric towel rail (on a timer) and a very rarely used infra-red heater in the bathroom. We only use gas for the cooker. Our house has double-glazing, cavity wall insulation and is reasonably well insulated. The main living areas face south so it catches the sun. Houses either side of us have GCH so I can easily compare the costs. And they are about the same....

Actually I wasn't quite accurate there... I didn't replace all the heaters. The house isn't open plan. But we found that the heat from the sitting room heater (3.4kW) provided enought heat for Kitchen/Dining/Sitting rooms. Also the heat from the Hall heater (3.4kW) goes up the stairs and into the landing and bedroom areas. My childrens' (now grown up but still here ) heaters were replaced but I never needed to replace the heater in our bedroom. You just need to leave some of the doors open. The average temperature in the house in winter is around 17-20C & sometimes a lot higher when sunny!

Following a nasty spat a few years ago with PowerGen (over them getting the meter readings wrong and not believing me..I'm no longer using them), I've been recording the meter readings every week so I have a pretty good idea of the consumption figures (they are on a spreadsheet). Last winter, the highest weekly consumption on the E7 tariff was 372kWh during Christmas week. During the rest of winter it was between 230-280kWh per week. For the "day" tariff, the average weekly consumption seems to be about the same throughout the year. We (mostly) run the washing machine, dishwasher and tumble drier at night on the E7 tariff. But certainly not always..

You just have to have a bit of discipline when using electric for heating. Our storage heaters do not get cold by evening. They are still providing heat. OK not as much as they do first thing in the morning. But it's enough. The major problem with storage heaters is there is no *instant* heat. Between the Autumn/Winter and Spring/Summer seasons you have to work out what the weather is going to do and whether (!) it is worth switching them on or off. But this only lasts a few weeks if that. (the last few years, I haven't bothered and just switched them on in October and off again in May). Also you can't turn them off while on holiday & come back & expect the house to be warm because it won't be until they have been recharged overnight (you can get around that by getting a neighbour to switch them on for you). Our storage heaters are thermostatically controlled and once you've worked out the settings for that particular heater, you can just leave it.

From time to time, I've looked at the costs of re-installing GCH but for us, it isn't worth it. OK "your mileage may vary" with storage heaters, but that's my experience with them over 25 years.

Best Regards... Ian

Cardew

Ian,
Excellent post on the merits/demerits of storage heating.

I think the major point to come across is that you need to 'work at' using storage heaters efficiently; we are all seduced by the availability of 'instant' CH.

What do you do at this time of the year? e.g. We have been out all day and the house just needed a little warming up(well for my wife and daughter anyway).

If you hadn't anticipated needing storage heating today, do you have other electric heaters as a back up?

amtrakuk

Cardew wrote: »

Ian,
Excellent post on the merits/demerits of storage heating.

I think the major point to come across is that you need to 'work at' using storage heaters efficiently; we are all seduced by the availability of 'instant' CH.

What do you do at this time of the year? e.g. We have been out all day and the house just needed a little warming up(well for my wife and daughter anyway).

If you hadn't anticipated needing storage heating today, do you have other electric heaters as a back up?

Very true.

Alot of people who have/use storage heaters don't actually know how to use them. From what I've learnt over the last week most people expect storage heaters to be a set and forget system. They don't realise they close the heateres at the end of the night, open the slightly during the day and open them up according to how much heat they require when at home.

paceinternet

ianking, how many hours do you think your heaters will discharge enough heat to keep the areas at room (20 ish degC) for?
What make and model are they?
And finally, can you stop them from discharging heat during a period where maybe no one is in? Looking at some literature, it seems they are not really insulated so that they have to radiate some of their heat continuously whether during the E7 charge period or thereafter.
Thanks

amtrakuk

They dont have any storage capabilities, well they wont be able to store the heat for hours and hours until you want the heat. If thats what you're looking for you better look for proper storage heaters.

Perhapse look at http://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/index.htm the you can go for conventional storage heaters or "Duoheat" radiators which is a mix of the two and perhaps a better option?

Either way before buying it is best to phone the manufacturer and ask if they fit you're criteria

DrowningNotWaving

Thank you, everyone, for the time and trouble you all take with questions and answers.

Having spent three hours reading this very useful thread I feel somewhat more informed than before. Based on the information herein I'll be buying a cheap plug-in radiator to supplement my gas central heating, though I guess I'll still be working at my computer in a sleeping bag during the day as I can't quite justify heating the whole house till the kids come home. It's quite good fun with the three small dogs in there too, and quite interesting when there is a knock at the door .

I have a couple of daft questions (apologies if this should be posted elsewhere, do let me know and I'll re-post)):

1. I've just had my 20 year-old gas boiler serviced and was told it wasn't very efficient, I nearly fell over myself in shock when given a quote for replacement. Are the new boilers really so much more efficient as to warrant a replacement when this one works well enough? And is a Combi type better than this version which heats up a tank of water? I don't think I'll change to storage heaters given the info so far.

2. Up till now I have been using one of those beautiful flame effect gas fires to bring the heating up to about 18C in the living room of an evening but think this must be frightfully expensive, a bit like heating the kitchen using the gas hob, hence the purchasing of a radiator. Am I right in thinking this is the best thing to do as I don't need to heat the whole house more (the kids do their homework sat in bed with jumpers)? Should I also block up the chimney as it seems to suck out any heat if the fire's not on?

3. Which would be most economical, given my 4 bed EOT house with secondary glazing: leaving the heating on low eg 14C all the time (lots of very big jumpers), or higher eg 18C mornings and evenings (sleeping bag when it's off). I have found a lot of conflicting advice regarding this and have become confused.

Again, apologies if this should be posted elsewhere.
And thanks in advance to all you incredibly helpful people.

Cardew

DrowningNotWaving wrote: »

Thank you, everyone, for the time and trouble you all take with questions and answers.

Having spent three hours reading this very useful thread I feel somewhat more informed than before. Based on the information herein I'll be buying a cheap plug-in radiator to supplement my gas central heating, though I guess I'll still be working at my computer in a sleeping bag during the day as I can't quite justify heating the whole house till the kids come home. It's quite good fun with the three small dogs in there too, and quite interesting when there is a knock at the door .

I have a couple of daft questions (apologies if this should be posted elsewhere, do let me know and I'll re-post)):

1. I've just had my 20 year-old gas boiler serviced and was told it wasn't very efficient, I nearly fell over myself in shock when given a quote for replacement. Are the new boilers really so much more efficient as to warrant a replacement when this one works well enough? And is a Combi type better than this version which heats up a tank of water? I don't think I'll change to storage heaters given the info so far.

2. Up till now I have been using one of those beautiful flame effect gas fires to bring the heating up to about 18C in the living room of an evening but think this must be frightfully expensive, a bit like heating the kitchen using the gas hob, hence the purchasing of a radiator. Am I right in thinking this is the best thing to do as I don't need to heat the whole house more (the kids do their homework sat in bed with jumpers)? Should I also block up the chimney as it seems to suck out any heat if the fire's not on?

3. Which would be most economical, given my 4 bed EOT house with secondary glazing: leaving the heating on low eg 14C all the time (lots of very big jumpers), or higher eg 18C mornings and evenings (sleeping bag when it's off). I have found a lot of conflicting advice regarding this and have become confused.

Again, apologies if this should be posted elsewhere.
And thanks in advance to all you incredibly helpful people.

Welcome to the forum.

Question 1.
A question posed many times, and there are some threads on this subject.
You can actually look up the efficiency of your boiler on the SEDBUK website.
I would hazard a guess that from that era its efficiency will be around 65%.

The Institute of Chartered surveyers have produce a report saying that on average people save less than £100 a year by changing boilers(again this quote/link can be found in this section.)

I have a 20 year old boiler and heavy gas consumption and I won't replace mine as it is just not cost effective - most on MSE agree that you don't replace servicable boilers. Lots of other considerations - I suggest you do a search.

Question 2
Combi boilers which heat Hot water on demand cost less to run. However the difference in getting a boiler(combi or standard) to feed a HW tank is not large. £30 a year???

Anyway that heat is not lost as it heats the house, usually an airing cupboard as well.

The downside of combis is you don't get a plentiful supply of hot water - particularly in Winter

Again lots of posts on this if you do a search.

Question 3
This again has generated masses of threads and the question, as you posed it, cannot be answered. Too many unknown factors.

14C is cold and not a temperature most people could tolerate.

In general terms, on a timer is cheaper than on constantly