Inventory Check Out - Fair Wear and Tear

CharlieRabbit01

I find the term Fair Wear and Tear difficult to quantify.

I've just had my check out for my flat, annoyingly I didn't realise that it was professionally cleaned when we moved in and therefore that meant it had to be pro cleaned when we moved out (or so thats what the check out clerk said).

So from the off I was doomed as he knew as soon as he walked in it was domestically cleaned.

The carpets however were pro cleaned as I couldn't get a straight answer off our agents about whether this was necessary or not.

The following is according to the supposedly independent check out clerk:

1. The carpet cleaning wasn't up to scratch (imo not my problem they have the invoice for the cleaning)

2. Small 6mm chip in exposed corner paint work from moving furniture - chargable

3. 10cm by 14cm faded heat mark to kitchen counter infront of where our microwave was - chargable

4. hair in plug whole (my bad for not checking that) - chargable

5. external windows dusty (windows are on busy road and it rained about 10 mins after I cleaned them) - chargable

6. dust on top of boiler (again my bad for missing this) - chargable

7. Curtains washed but not ironed (packed my iron and couldnt find it) - chargable

8. general all round clean required as current state is domestic not professional - chargable

9. Rusted venetian blinds - fair wear and tear

All the above is what the check out clerk advised, where do I stand on this and what reasonable charges can I expect?

They should advise us in 10 days of any deductions but if they want to charge for these what are reasonable costs?

dotdash79

what was in the check in?

If it didn't say the condition and how clean the things were then they would struggle to charge for stuff

wannahouse

1) charging for a 6mm paint chip is ridiculous!!!
i am a landlord and would consider that fair wear and tear!
ofcourse if they were literally pepper up and down and all over the paintwork, if you were rough on the house, fair enough, but one paint chip???
i would dispute that, and i don''t think arbitration would allow them to charge for that...

2) carpets, not sure, as even if you had them cleaned, if the conditon is hugely different than when you moved in with loads of stains etc, then i wouldn't be happy...

3) heat mark- are the kitchen benches old, or in reasonable condition?
they can't charge you to replace, but the charge would be based on a depreciation based on how old it is etc and there is a formula on the deposit protection service that should be used to work it out, or the landlord will be seen as being unreasonable!
if the benches are old, the it may be viewed that they are worthless anyway and due for replacement, - BUT you did damage them, so paying a FAIR charge is what you want to negotiate

4) hair in plughole - FOR !!!!!!!!!$£@$@!!! they want to charge for that when it takes one second to lift it out...as a landlord i feel thats unreasonable - dispute that too..doubt they'd get an award for that!

5) if they WERE clean when you moved in then you would be expected to clean them... its obvious a window that has been cleaned and had new dust settle on it, than one that is left filthy....if its still possible to take pics , then i would...dispute it and make your case that they dirty back up quickly

6) dust on boiler..well ok, it should have been wiped off,if it was clean in the beginning but how much will that cost to remove?

7) curtains, prob fair enough if they do not look presentable

8) pro clean... in my opinion, i have always cleaned a flat better for checkout than most professional cleaners! we had to pay a "pro" £650 to clean our 2 bed flat when the last tenants moved out and left it filthy..he was RUBBISH, and we had to relieve him of his duties and finish the job ourselves... clean is clean, it shouldn't matter WHO cleans , as long as it is up to standard! i don't know of any special training one does to become a cleaner asides from picking up a mop and bucket, so insisting on an outsider cleaning is not fair, but expecting a "pro" job, is, if that is how you recieved it!

what you can do is DISPUTE the unfair portion of what they are claiming.
they will need to tell you what they are expecting for each item, so you can dispute those parts, or where you know you are to blame, make sure the charge is reasonable!
remember however, getting someone in isn't cheap, and despite all these companies that say they clean a 2 bed flat from £xxx , when they come in, they always end up charging loads more...
our tenants cracked it at the cleaning quotes, but we got quotes from 6 random places, and they were all expensive (and made me consider if it would be worth my while actually becoming a cleaner!)

the agent should then , accordinhg to the DPS website, return the undisputed part of the deposit, and if you can't come to an agreement, go to arbitration to decide the rest...
don't be bullied, but make sure YOU are fair and take responsibility for your bit too, otherwise you will be seen t have been unreasonable also..

DizzyDasher

My understanding is they are NOT allowed to insist on professional cleaning - all they can require is that it is the same standard of cleanliness as when you moved in - and as wannahouse says, there is no reason a private individual can't achieve that (or better). See for example the guidance from the TDS here:
http://www.tds.gb.com/resources/files/Our%20approach%20to%20unfair%20contract%20terms.pdf
You'll see one of the examples they give where they would NOT award the full costs of a professional clean (though might still award something) is where the check out report "indicates that the property was generally clean, with some oversights, at the end of the tenancy" So even if they charge you something, if you left it generally clean and tidy (which it sounds like you did) it should be much less than a full professional cleaning charge.

Also, just because the check out clerk has said these things, don't assume the landlord will charge. Checkout agents have to list every tiny thing - that's their job. But in my experience if the place is in good condition and there are just a couple of small oversights most reasoanble landlords will be happy enough to return the full deposit. Out of our 4 rental places all had a few minor issues of the type you are listing, but only one charged us anything out of the deposit (and that was something we agreed to - we had an accident with red wine/carpet a week before moving out and called to explain the situation and see if he was happy to get a carpet cleaner in after we moved out - he said yes and we just agreed a price between us).

Other than that fully agree with wannahouse's response: but hopefully your landlord will too!

wannahouse

also, we have only taken part of a tenants deposit ONCE, and that is because they totally took the p...
i asked them if they had cleaned it to wich they said yes, including the oven, so i put my hand in and touched the tray and it came out black and greasy..a bit embarrassing as i was not expecting that!
they even left a huge blackberry bush growing in a window box, high up in a multi storey building! (they hadn't thought to do any weeding obviously)
the bathrooms were left damaged by the severe mould and limescale they had left to build up,and even with a professional clean alot of it did not come off, and left all the chrome surfaces eaten into..
they even left skids in the toilet! they were pigs!
because of their attitude, and the fact they hadn't even bothered, i charged them for everything that had to be rectified..
if it was a normal, nice tenant who made an effort, and accidentally forgot a little hair, and some dust on the boiler, i would let it slide and give them their money back quickly, and wipe the dust off myself....

you can always say, i dispute xyz..and thing blah blah is unreasonable but i would offer you £100 (for example) for the time to iron the curtains and dust the boiler etc,( if they come back with a monetary amount that is ridiculous ) and if you are not happy with that, you can take the claim to the arbitraitors, but i expect the undisputed amount back straight away ....

you can also put in a claim for the whole of your deposit yourself, if its protected with DPS ..you don't have to wait for them to trigger it.

CharlieRabbit01

dotdash79 wrote: »

what was in the check in?

If it didn't say the condition and how clean the things were then they would struggle to charge for stuff

our check in inventory did say pro cleaned, unfortunately I got tied up in the smaller details ie making sure the cheese grater and toilet brush were left behind as these were in the inventory.

CharlieRabbit01

wannahouse wrote: »

1)

charging for a 6mm paint chip is ridiculous!!!
i am a landlord and would consider that fair wear and tear!
ofcourse if they were literally pepper up and down and all over the paintwork, if you were rough on the house, fair enough, but one paint chip???

i would dispute that, and i don''t think arbitration would allow them to charge for that...

Its the only one and it was when we put the wardrobe in the walls are otherwise unmarked.

2) carpets, not sure, as even if you had them cleaned, if the conditon is hugely different than when you moved in with loads of stains etc, then i wouldn't be happy...

no stains on them, there are furniture press marks, and what the cleaner called "sock dye" on the floor where you had to walk round the bed to get to the other side (of course).

3) heat mark- are the kitchen benches old, or in reasonable condition?
they can't charge you to replace, but the charge would be based on a depreciation based on how old it is etc and there is a formula on the deposit protection service that should be used to work it out, or the landlord will be seen as being unreasonable!
if the benches are old, the it may be viewed that they are worthless anyway and due for replacement, - BUT you did damage them, so paying a FAIR charge is what you want to negotiate

in deed I am happy to pay a fair sum for things I have caused. The work top is 8 years old, we've been there for 3 years.

4) hair in plughole - FOR !!!!!!!!!$£@$@!!! they want to charge for that when it takes one second to lift it out...as a landlord i feel thats unreasonable - dispute that too..doubt they'd get an award for that!

yeah my bad its one of those snazzy plugs where you turn the dial and it drops down, I just didn't think to take it out and check underneath.

5) if they WERE clean when you moved in then you would be expected to clean them... its obvious a window that has been cleaned and had new dust settle on it, than one that is left filthy....if its still possible to take pics , then i would...dispute it and make your case that they dirty back up quickly

they were similar when we moved in, only have the photos that the check in guy took.

6) dust on boiler..well ok, it should have been wiped off,if it was clean in the beginning but how much will that cost to remove?

7) curtains, prob fair enough if they do not look presentable

again I agree, my fault for packing my iron. but at least i washed them.

8) pro clean... in my opinion, i have always cleaned a flat better for checkout than most professional cleaners! we had to pay a "pro" £650 to clean our 2 bed flat when the last tenants moved out and left it filthy..he was RUBBISH, and we had to relieve him of his duties and finish the job ourselves... clean is clean, it shouldn't matter WHO cleans , as long as it is up to standard! i don't know of any special training one does to become a cleaner asides from picking up a mop and bucket, so insisting on an outsider cleaning is not fair, but expecting a "pro" job, is, if that is how you recieved it!

Think his problem was you couldnt see your relection, it there were a few smears and or finger prints.

what you can do is DISPUTE the unfair portion of what they are claiming.
they will need to tell you what they are expecting for each item, so you can dispute those parts, or where you know you are to blame, make sure the charge is reasonable!
remember however, getting someone in isn't cheap, and despite all these companies that say they clean a 2 bed flat from £xxx , when they come in, they always end up charging loads more...
our tenants cracked it at the cleaning quotes, but we got quotes from 6 random places, and they were all expensive (and made me consider if it would be worth my while actually becoming a cleaner!)

the agent should then , accordinhg to the DPS website, return the undisputed part of the deposit, and if you can't come to an agreement, go to arbitration to decide the rest...
don't be bullied, but make sure YOU are fair and take responsibility for your bit too, otherwise you will be seen t have been unreasonable also..

Thanks I had no idea how they calculated this, at least its not a random number out of the air. Our deposit is in TDS.[/QUOTE]

wannahouse

not fair imo to charge for furniture marks on carpet.
what do they expect you to do? have levitating furniture?
thru traffic marking should come under fair wear and tear too...esp given you've been there for 3 yrs.. the "life" of the carpet for calculations is actually not very long! 8 yrs for a worktop would be considered getting to replacement time soon, so a depreciable amount would not be able to be too much...
assuming its obvious your intention was to leave it clean and tidy, and it is bar these few things, its not reasonable to ask for too much , if anything at all really...
here, have a read of the info from DPS so you know how it works, then you'll be armed with the information you need to write a compelling response: https://www.depositprotection.com/documents/guide-to-deposits-disputes-damages-2013.pdf
particularily pages 12 - 15

in future, i recommend you to do as we always do..take your OWN condition photos when you move in, and AFTER you clean, for the moveout, take photos again of the condition..that way, you have PROOF of the condition you left everything, as once you hand those keys over, theres no way they're letting you near the place, so taking those photos will be most helpful if you ever need to prove your case!

CharlieRabbit01

Thanks Wannahouse I'll let you know what happens next.

The guy who checked us in to our new place was really nice and not quite so specific about things but we have moved from a modern white box to a country cottage style flat, with uneven walls, beams etc and it was by no means pro cleaned before we moved in.

I'm going to dig out my contract for the old place to see if I am obliged to get the old placed pro cleaned or not.

The only time it was mentioned was in the letter confirming the end of tenancy where it says " we recommend professional cleaning to aleviate disputes at check out"

RAS

They cannot demand or even recommend professional cleaning. They cannot demand betterment.

If you items are 8 years old and looking a it tired that is normal wear and tear and cannot be used to claim money from the deposit.

Dispute it.

CharlieRabbit01

RAS wrote: »

They cannot demand or even recommend professional cleaning. They cannot demand betterment.

That wasn't the impression I got from the check out guy.