Inventory Check Out - Fair Wear and Tear

RAS

Estate agents have no legal training and your check-out guy will have even less. They rely on overwheening confidence and punters' ignorance to extract the maximum amount of money from people but will back down if you dispute it.

Time and time again on here a letter before action see a EA or LL finally take legal advice and go into reverse at high speed.

If the kit in this place was 8 years old and you wrecked it completely they would only be able to claim a limited amount back. A cheap carpet might be consider OK for 5 years, so you would owe nothing it had to be replaced; a decent one with a 10 year life span would mean you owed 20% of the replacement cost if the carpet was completely unusable when you left.

CharlieRabbit01

the work top would have been put in when it was built 5 years before we moved in, we've been there 3 years.

The carpet is pale cream (why you'd put that in rented i have no idea), we are of an age where our parents taught us to take our shoes off at the door.

4 of the 5 windows are on a busy road, our wall is the edge of the road, you could dust today and next week it'll all be back.

I'll let you all know what we hear from them as I understand they have 10 days to tell us if they want to take any money out of the deposit.

We might be lucky, but that facts you guys have given me will be very useful should we get told about any charges.

As i've said earlier I'm happy to pay reasonable charges for damages, which imo is just the heat mark on the worktop where our microwave is.

I'm not sure where we stand on the cleaning.

It was domestically cleaned by us and MIL also forgot to mention we did miss a cupboard in the kitchen but that would take only a few seconds to wipe out.

DizzyDasher

They really can't demand professional cleaning, whether or not it was professionally cleaned on the way in.

What matters isn't who did the cleaning, it's the state of the property. They are entitled to get it back in the same state of cleanliness that they gave it to you. So just because you did it yourself, and even if it needs a little bit extra doing, they can't charge you for a full professional clean: only for the specific extra cleaning that was needed to put it into the same state that you received it, as wannahouse set out.

For the windows: is the dirt you are talking about even visible on the check in or check out photos? If not (e.g. if it's just a fine film of dust from the road) I wouldn't have thought there would be any way to charge you (you say it's no worse than when you moved in, they say it is but have no photographic evidence to prove it unless it's clear on the photos).

See for example the OFT guidance on what they would consider to be unfair contract terms in a tenancy, which includes a few references to cleaning:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

Try not to worry too much. There is still a good chance that your LL will be reasonable and charge you for a limited amount, if anything! Let us know how it goes?

DizzyDasher

Even regarding the heat mark on the worktop... I would have thought that a kitchen work top should be able to withstand having a microwave oven on it? Or was there something wrong with the oven? (I once set fire to ours - oops - turns out you microwave crispy fried seawead for 30 SECONDS.... Luckily in that place we had granite worktops, so no damage done!)

CharlieRabbit01

DizzyDasher wrote: »

They really can't demand professional cleaning, whether or not it was professionally cleaned on the way in.

What matters isn't who did the cleaning, it's the state of the property. They are entitled to get it back in the same state of cleanliness that they gave it to you. So just because you did it yourself, and even if it needs a little bit extra doing, they can't charge you for a full professional clean: only for the specific extra cleaning that was needed to put it into the same state that you received it, as wannahouse set out.

For the windows: is the dirt you are talking about even visible on the check in or check out photos? If not (e.g. if it's just a fine film of dust from the road) I wouldn't have thought there would be any way to charge you (you say it's no worse than when you moved in, they say it is but have no photographic evidence to prove it unless it's clear on the photos).

See for example the OFT guidance on what they would consider to be unfair contract terms in a tenancy, which includes a few references to cleaning:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

Try not to worry too much. There is still a good chance that your LL will be reasonable and charge you for a limited amount, if anything! Let us know how it goes?

I'm hoping so, but when we moved in she emailed us and commented on the cleanliness of the previous tenants (extract below):

"I have just had the flat completely redecorated and it looks absolutely fabulous! I could move in myself to be honest it looks so good!

I have replaced the blinds all round, they are now nice new white
venetian blinds. I have had the curtains cleaned in the bedroom andthese will go back up next week before you move in.

I have arranged for professional cleaners to go in on 23 June and theyare also professionally cleaning the oven.

Unfortunately my previous tenants were not the most clean people you would come across!!"


The photos we have are tiny print outs on our inventory so i cant be certain.

This is the first time I've had a check out so thorough, the last 2 they basically checked it was still standing and not painted some silly colour.

So a little nervous.

CharlieRabbit01

DizzyDasher wrote: »

Even regarding the heat mark on the worktop... I would have thought that a kitchen work top should be able to withstand having a microwave oven on it? Or was there something wrong with the oven? (I once set fire to ours - oops - turns out you microwave crispy fried seawead for 30 SECONDS.... Luckily in that place we had granite worktops, so no damage done!)

its the work top infront of the microwave, basically we've cooked food in it then slide the hot plate/tray etc out onto the work top then emptied on to a plate.

i suppose i should have put it on a pan stand?

That said, I'm notorious for taking the trays out of the over and sticking it straight on the worktop and that bit hasn't got marked.

will also note to myself "don't cook seaweed for too long!" don't want to go setting my new place on fire.

DizzyDasher

Ah yes, that's a top tip on the seaweed if I say so myself. Glad to think I can save some other poor soul from that one!! I can still smell the melting plastic now ... ugh ugh ugh. What an idiot.

I still think the fact that it was "as new" is irrelevant: you can't make it new if it's not - it's been lived in - so that's not the right standard. It does sound like it was super-clean when you moved in, and may be slightly less clean in a couple of respects when you moved out. In which case it sounds like you may owe a little bit (still less than the cost of a full clean). Sounds like there's nothing (other than the work top) that couldn't be sorted by somebody going in for an hour or two with an iron and a duster and maybe a small tin of touch up paint?

On the bright side it sounds like your landlady had some very grimy tenants before if the whole place needed redecorating, so she may be pretty relieved that you left it in a basically decent state.

Anyway, will keep everything crossed that she sees reason! It's only in my last flat that we had very highly detailed photos/inventories, and it slightly freaked me out too. We also had a couple of embarrassing errors (some viewers came round when we were cleaning which distracted us and we were "on the clock" as we had a hire car waiting for us - with the result that we somehow managed to leave the bath half cleaned - i.e. with streaks of bath cleaner still at one end - and we also managed to forget one of the kitchen cupboards I think - embarrassing!) But we didn't get charged anything: our landlady said overall it was in a good state and that was good enough for her.

CharlieRabbit01

DizzyDasher wrote: »

Anyway, will keep everything crossed that she sees reason! It's only in my last flat that we had very highly detailed photos/inventories, and it slightly freaked me out too. We also had a couple of embarrassing errors (some viewers came round when we were cleaning which distracted us and we were "on the clock" as we had a hire car waiting for us - with the result that we somehow managed to leave the bath half cleaned - i.e. with streaks of bath cleaner still at one end - and we also managed to forget one of the kitchen cupboards I think - embarrassing!) But we didn't get charged anything: our landlady said overall it was in a good state and that was good enough for her.

I was waiting for the guy to get out his little white gloves, he went round the carpet crouched down like a crab his face barely 2ft off the carpet! I was waiting for him to start licking things!

This is basically what happened to us, we had a van on hire which had to be returned so we were watching the time, hence the odd bits we missed, including a kitchen cupboard which even at 5'7" tall I still couldn't see inside it and need to stand on a chair!

CharlieRabbit01

received the following email today:

"Dear xxxxx

Following the recent check out at the above mentioned property, please find attached a copy of the report produced by Estate Services.

The report does highlight a large number of cleaning oversights, therefore as the property was cleaned to a professional standard at check in we will be obtaining a quote from a cleaning company for these to be rectified.

A copy of the report has been sent to the Landlord for their comments and we will contact you again as soon as we receive their response.

Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any queries in the meantime."

CharlieRabbit01

Report makes the place sound disgusting.