Christening or no christening?????

Tam_Lin

absolutebounder wrote: »

the olest religion is VooDoo

Where's the evidence for that? I suspect the oldest religion is Hinduism.

Hapless_2

Tam_Lin wrote: »

Where's the evidence for that? I suspect the oldest religion is Hinduism.

Is this going to degrade into an arguement of contradiction?

the oldest religion? How about Celtic, Heathen, Australian Aboriginal, Pictish, Romano-greek, Sumerian, Lappish, Yoruba, the list is endless.

No religion/belief can claim the oldest religion/belief. No-one can claim "the old ways" whether Pagan/Heathen, Christian, Jewish or whatever, for the simple reason..we do not know

absolutebounder

Bestthingsinlifearefree wrote: »

You choose to be an athiest absolutebonder and no doubt you will choose your child to be brought up as an athiest.

Not true. like me, my daughters education was highly biased in favour of C of E. Her school did not teach her anything about any other religion despite the subject being called religious education. my school was exactly the same in its teaching

I think for many bringing their children up in with a faith is not always about "the does God exist" debate but more about giving them a sence of morality e.g the 10 commandments.

Im all in favour of morality but it doesnt need faith or religion to do that

Is it so wrong for children to believe that if they are good they go to heaven and if they do bad they will get punished but also they can be forgiven for their sins and redeem themselves.

Yes it is absolutely awefull! Bringing up children using bribery and fear leads in many casesto all sorts of troubles and inadequacies later in life. How can anyone believe in Hell. Where is it? How do we get there? It beggars belief that a rational adult can contemplate such a place.

I would rather my child to be brought up in a moral / religious context than an athiest amoral context.

Morality has nothing to do with religion. there are plenty of amoral religious people. The Catholic church in particular is finding the amorality of its priests very expensive

Will you be telling you child that Santa does not exist to?

santa did exist. In oldern mythology well before the christians borrowed the idea. St Nicholas was in fact Turkish

absolutebounder

Tam_Lin wrote: »

Where's the evidence for that? I suspect the oldest religion is Hinduism.

http://www.mamiwata.com/origins.html
To be fair hiduism also is often accepted as the oldest religion as well but both do not seem to go back much more than about 10000 years and man has gone back much farther. The poster stated that since man had always belived in gods that was good enough. My point was why christianity which is relatively young?

MortgageMamma

Hell does exist for some people, just because its not underground with little red devils running around with forks doesnt mean it does not exist. It is a state of mind, usually caused by external events which cause emotional and/or physical pain and suffering for people which usually teaches them a lesson and they then react positively to the experience or negatively. -I believe that life is one long lesson, and as people die and are reincarnated they learn different lessons each time until they are enlightened and thats when the spirit rests. None of that is linked to religion its just my take on things. People can laugh and scoff at my opinion and thats really ok, because ultimately so long are you are not hurting someone or causing unecessary suffering with your beliefs you are entitled to believe what you want there is no right or wrong, just what fits you as a person

absolutebounder

MortgageMamma wrote: »

Hell does exist for some people, just because its not underground with little red devils running around with forks doesnt mean it does not exist. It is a state of mind, usually caused by external events which cause emotional and/or physical pain and suffering for people

A personal view of hell and Im ok with that, but its not the way it is portrayed to children. It is incredibly dangerous to teach a child under the age of 6 these things as up to that age the child does not have a critical factor in his mind. All information goes in like a sponge without being edited. to a young child all information is information, They dont have the ability to rationally think why you say something. So lying about hell can be very disturbing to some children. This is why religion and babies or children is such an emotive issue. The rituals and pressure put on our children by the churches is nothing short of brainwashing. Im not saying just because I am an atheist everyone should be but let the child make up his / her own mind whan they are capable of making their own decisions with all the known facts.

pamaris

absolutebounder wrote: »

A personal view of hell and Im ok with that, but its not the way it is portrayed to children. It is incredibly dangerous to teach a child under the age of 6 these things as up to that age the child does not have a critical factor in his mind. All information goes in like a sponge without being edited. to a young child all information is information, They dont have the ability to rationally think why you say something. So lying about hell can be very disturbing to some children. This is why religion and babies or children is such an emotive issue. The rituals and pressure put on our children by the churches is nothing short of brainwashing. Im not saying just because I am an atheist everyone should be but let the child make up his / her own mind whan they are capable of making their own decisions with all the known facts.

Ugh.

Actually, when the subject is approached lovingly and with reason, children are comforted by the idea of hell in that they instinctively know that there should be justice and that "bad people" should not be allowed to hurt others and should get what's coming to them. In other words, children are comforted if they know that when people kill and steal it may be overlooked by humans but will not be overlooked by God. It makes them feel unsafe when "bad people" get away with hurting others and have no repercussions. They view hell as a place where God chains up the "bad people" so that they can't hurt anyone anymore (at least, this is the point of view of my 5 YO). Children do have their own minds and their own view of things. They ask a lot more questions than you assume and they are very suspect when they don't get a straight answer on something.

MortgageMamma

Both my eldest daughters go to a catholic school. I sent them there purely becuase of the standard of teaching and the fact I wanted moral guidance for them (I'm not always the best example) and not for religious reasons.

My youngest girl is 6 in September and she has not been taught about hell yet. She has never once come home talking about Jesus or Mary or anything and the religious festivals there consider all belief and not just christianity. I think its good for children to learn about religion as a whole as it gives them a good understanding of society as they grow up. I think in this day and age with Offsted breathing down the schools backs they have to be very careful as to how much time they spend on religous related activities. I don't think its like the old days when you were younger absolutebounder and the religious schools were really strict I think there is a lot more fairness these days.

I have to say though I do understand your points as I too have come from a strict catholic family and went to a school run by nuns which at the best of times were incompassionate and heartless. Looking back I feel they had less interest in the well being of the children of the school as they always had the bias and distraction of their religion.

I remember once my mum hit one of them before removing me from the school as I'd had 3 asthma attacks in a day and they refused to administer my inhaler because they thought it was gods will. Perhaps that was what turned me into an athiest or perhaps its all the bad that goes on in the world which I have witnessed constantly since being a small child. Some of my earliest memories involve watching people in the third world starving to death on the telly whilst I was sat in the front room eating corned beef hash crying - how can anyone believe there is a god with such huge amounts of suffering in the world

absolutebounder

pamaris wrote: »

Ugh.

Actually, when the subject is approached lovingly and with reason, children are comforted by the idea of hell in that they instinctively know that there should be justice and that "bad people" should not be allowed to hurt others and should get what's coming to them.

An eye for an eye eh if you want to teach them about justice why not tell them about the courts

In other words, children are comforted if they know that when people kill and steal it may be overlooked by humans but will not be overlooked by God.

Bit late by the time god gets to it isnt it

It makes them feel unsafe when "bad people" get away with hurting others and have no repercussions. They view hell as a place where God chains up the "bad people" so that they can't hurt anyone anymore (at least, this is the point of view of my 5 YO).

What sort of tyrant are you telling them this. teaching fear to a child that is so young is just plain stupid and dangerous. Why not tell him the truth about good and bad A bad person is hardly going to see hell as a problem if he doesnt believe in it?

Children do have their own minds and their own view of things. They ask a lot more questions than you assume and they are very suspect when they don't get a straight answer on something.

How is that waffle about hell a straight answer?
Yes children do ask questions. As I said above they are a sponge for information but they cant analyse it in a critical manner.
If a young child comes to you and says something like "Wheres daddy" and you answer "under that stone over there" The child will go and look without thinking that daddy is way bigger than the stone and couldnt possibly be under it. This is because they asked for info and you gave it but they havent develloped the critical mind to say that your info was rubbish.

MortgageMamma

I think the critical mind develops earlier than six in the majority of children, children are much more mature and grow up too quickly these days