Tmobile price increase

powerful_Rogue

I could be totally wrong, in which case I will apologise,however I dont believe superuser.

New User
One Post
Only post claiming they managed to cancel over the phone

If you or I had managed to cancel, I would be providing as much information for people as possible. Considering the matter is with the Executives Office and we know call center staff cant cancel contracts - I believe Superuser to be a troll.

Chimper

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

I could be totally wrong, in which case I will apologise,however I dont believe superuser.

New User
One Post
Only post claiming they managed to cancel over the phone

If you or I had managed to cancel, I would be providing as much information for people as possible. Considering the matter is with the Executives Office and we know call center staff cant cancel contracts - I believe Superuser to be a troll.

I fully agree. A new member on the whatmobile forum as well. Smells and looks just like a troll.

shedder101

take what superuser says with a pinch of salt i think be nice if i was wrong,

still had no response from tmobile from the letter i have sent i think they have dug a hole, dropped in to it, and covered it up hoping we will all go away

50Twuncle

Has anyone heard from Martin Lewis re this issue ?
If not - COME ON MARTIN - This is surely what you are here for - we need you !!
You have the power and contacts to help us !!
We need to start a "class action" case against Tmobile/EE to save everyone from having to go through the legal issues individually....

anna2007

Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive...

I've received a further email from the TM Legal Team - they don't seem to have done a very good job of reviewing the correspondence... Mr Swantee :wave: made his final position very clear in my deadlock email of 22 April, yet the Legal Team seem to be contradicting him on some points; obviously there's been a complete breakdown of communication at the Executive Office

You might want to sit down before reading this one...

Dear Anna2007,

I have been reviewing the correspondence between yourself and our Executive Office regarding the relevant RPI used for our recent T-Mobile price increases and would like to further clarify our position.

You have two mobile numbers with us:

. xxxxx xxxxxx to which version 59 of our terms and conditions is applicable.

. xxxxx xxxxxx to which version 58 of our terms and conditions is applicable.

I have set out some details below on how we implemented the increases in line with RPI for both sets of Terms and Conditions:

Version 59, relevant price variation clauses

7.2.3.1. Our entitlement to operate the Network ends at any time; or

7.2.3.2. You are a Consumer and the change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 2.11.2 or 7.1.4 above is of material detriment to You and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect; or

7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is:

(i) an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the retail price index (also calculated as a percentage) or any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date on which We send You Written Notice;

We notified all affected customers between 2-8 April and you received your notification on 6 April. Taking into account the time required to calculate and communicate the price increases, it was not practically possible for us to use the February RPI, which was published on 19th March, particularly given the Easter Bank Holidays. The relevant RPI therefore is the January RPI of 3.3% which was published on 12th February.

Version 58, relevant price variation clauses:

7.2.3. A Cancellation Charge won't apply if You are within the Minimum Term and:

7.2.3.1. Our entitlement to operate the Network ends at any time; or

7.2.3.2. You are a Consumer and the change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 2.11.2 or 7.1.4 above is of material detriment to You and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect; or

7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the Retail Price Index (also calculated as a percentage) for the 12 months before the month in which We send You Written Notice and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect.

You received your letter with the notification of the price increase on 6 April. The relevant RPI therefore is the RPI of March 2013 (which was the month before we sent out your notification).This figure was 3.3%. We were confident (based on our detailed analysis of RPI figures) that the March figure would be 3.3% and therefore took a small commercial risk to inform our customers of this figure shortly before it was released publicly.

Based on this, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3 (of both sets of terms and conditions), you do not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charges that may apply.

Yours sincerely


TMUK Legal Team

anna2007

RandomCurve has asked me to post details of an email account he has set up:

[EMAIL="eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com"]eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com[/EMAIL]

It would be a great help if all readers of this thread who have sent emails to the media could forward these emails on to this address, so that we can gather them together in one place and use our collective voice to gain some much needed media attention. If you could copy any further emails to this address too
:beer:

Chimper

anna2007 wrote: »

Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive...

I think your quote sums it up perfectly Anna

I'm sure they know exactly what they've done. The trouble is that for every excuse they've made, they've been proved wrong. This is just another example of them making up a new excuse hoping we'll go away.

RandomCurve

Once again T-Mobile sends a letter, and once again wereceive another lie! I wondered how long it would take them to fall back on everyLawyers favourite word “reasonableness”, so I had a defence pre planned and italso covers the counter defence they will try to use!



There are two objectives you can try and pursue here:

1 A personal Objective of trying to enforce your rightsunder the contract and/or

2 A strategic objective of not only dropping TMobile in to thedeep vat of S*** that its greed deserves, but also sending a very clear messageto other companies.



As you have probably realised if you have read my earlierposts I fall into the 2nd camp!



I will shortly post what I consider the defence to T-Mobileslatest fabrication and all previous rationale so that you can (if you chose)use it in your CISAS application (For Post Oct 2012 contracts). I should stressthat I have no legal training – just an unfortunate knack of having to dealwith bullying big companies who think they don’t have to abide by the laws of theland or their own T&Cs!



The later posting will help you if all you want to do isachieve objective 1.



To achieve objective 2 I NEED YOR HELP! To win objective 2we need PUBLICITY and as despite several emails and calls to various news publications,TV news channels - Sky news and the BBC (BBC only today), and consumer groups,Which, Watchdog to date nobody will pick up the story, but then I had an idea!



When the price rise was announced on 1st March manymedia organisations ran the story and stated that you could not terminate withoutincurring a penalty. However this is now FACTUALLY INCORRECT and therefore weneed to ask those organisations to publish a correction/follow-up story.



This forum is being watched by over 20,000 people (approximately1% of the TMobile customer base) and I guess includes our good friend SS - Silent Swantee :wave:.



My next post will be a standard email and a distributionlist for you to copy and paste, and as Anna2007 has indicated I have set up anew email account solely for this issue (which I will close when we are allfinished) and would like to be copied in on the email that you send so I canmonitor the pressure being applied to the news organisations – I will then beable to put pressure on them if they do not respond so PLEASE take 5 minutesand send an email!

AND YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FOUM TO SEND THE EMAIL!

Don’t get mad get EEven.

RandomCurve

Distribution List:
[EMAIL="News.london@ukmetro.co.uk"]News.london@ukmetro.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="home@guardian.co.uk"]home@guardian.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="which@which.co.uk"]which@which.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="editor@thisismoney.co.uk"]editor@thisismoney.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="home.news@thetimes.co.uk"]home.news@thetimes.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com"]eevenrandomcurve@gmail.com[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="Watchdog@bbc.co.uk"]Watchdog@bbc.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Title: Retraction email

Dear sir,

You published an article on or around 1st March reporting that Orange and TMobile (EE) were increasing the monthly price on supposedly fixed contracts by 3.3%. You stated in that article that customers had no choice but to either pay the increased charge OR to pay a cancellation fee to cancel the contract. Subsequent events now mean that that story if FACTUALLY INCORRECT as TMobile customers whose contracts started on or after 1st November CAN I believe terminate their contract WITHOUT PENALTY due to a mis timing on the part of TMobile.

As thousands of TMobile customers may not be taking advantage of their right to cancel without penalty due to your article I think it is vital that you IMMEDIATELY (before 9 May as this is the last day customer can cancel) publish either a correction or an updated story in order to not have misled your readers into not exercising their contractual rights.

In addition customers on contracts starting before the 1st November 2012 MAY also be able to exit their contracts without penalty due to some procedural irregularities, whilst I do not believe it correct to state that these customers CAN exit without penalty, they should be made aware of the potential possibility in order that they can request termination for TMobile using the wrong RPI rate, thus protecting their termination rights should TMOBILE subsequently prove to be in Breach.

I understand you have received a similar email to the above from [EMAIL="EEvenrandomcurve@gmail.com"]EEvenrandomcurve@gmail.com[/EMAIL] with contact details should your reporters need to discuss details or require evidence that has come direct from the EE Executive office.
You should also be aware that two internet reporting sites have started to break this story:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2264454/tmobile-allegedly-breaches-its-cancellation-policy
and
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04..._price_change/

Regards

RandomCurve

Basically there are so many points you can win this on I'm not really sure what is the best one, but I think it might be an idea to use them all as in doing so you can paint a story which I think will also help our friends on a Pre Oct 2012 contract.

First of the Case winners:

1. In 2012 T-Mobile increased its prices, the relevant dates are as follows:

1. Feb RPI published March20th

2. T-Mobile letters RECEIVED between 28th March and 2nd April (7-10Working days after publication (excluded weekends))

3. Price rise effective 9th May

2. In 2013 T-Mobile increase prices

1. As T-Mobile terms state an ANNUAL increase in inflation it is safe to assume that February is the intended RPI rate

2. Feb RPI published 20March

3. T-Mobile sends letters 2nd-8th April (8-12 Working days after publication (excluding weekends and Easter Bank Holiday)

How can it be arguedthat that it was unreasonable to expect them to inform us of Febs RPI within 12 working days, when last year they managed it in as little as 7 (letter RECEIVED)?

If T-Mobile claim that they have changed business practices and lost staff since last year then the response can only be:

“The decision to change working practices and reduce staff numbers is a business decision, it was a risk that EE took as a business. And it was its responsibility to ensure it could maintain a reasonable service in regards to timeliness with the new staffing levels and that was their risk to take and therefore cannot be considered by CISAS (business decision), and does not give EE the right to alter what is reasonable.”

Additionally:

1. If the time was not reasonable why not delay the price rise for a week so that they did have time to write and use Febs figure??

2. Orange, also owned by EE, put up its prices by 3.3% based on Januarys RPI - their letters were delivered before 20th March (I have friends who received theirs on 13th March and the Orange and TMobile letters are identical except for the letter head),so why did TMobile not send out letters at the same time if they intended to use Januarys Figure, especially as the TMobile letter IS THE ORANGE LETTER, but printed on TMobile headed paper - all they had to do was change the headed paper in the printer - that can't take from 13th March to 6th April!

3. The date of January RPI publication was 12th Feb is it REASONABLE that it took TMobile 35 DAYS to write to you?

4. EE have the right to use an Annual rate of inflation, the last increase was 9th May 2012 using Feb RPI published on 20 March. If they now wish to use Januarys RPI –published on Feb 19th then they are applying a 12 month inflation rate over an 11month period, which means any quoted annual rate would be higher than the 11 month period, they should have annualised the 11 month rate and explained that that is what they are doing.

5. IF EE are allowed to apply an annual rate to a contract within 11 months then it follows that hey could apply an annual rate of inflation to my contract EVERY Month – provided they give the correct notice, this is obviously nonsense and therefore using an annual rate on an 11 month period cannot be correct.

6. T&Cs give you 30 days to cancel – if you miss by one day – even if due to weekend or Bank Holiday then do TMobile extend the deadline – NO!

The case builders:

1. If they had used Januarys RPI when challenged why did they send a letter - cleared by the legal department - saying that the T&Cs allow them to use a figure published as close as possible to the date of the letter -rather than just saying it was January?

2. When they were told that16th April is AFTER and NOT BEFORE 6th April (when letters received) why did they write -again cleared by the legal department - to say they took a business risk on March RPI - when the relevant RPI was already published (be it January or February!).

3. Why have they now sent a letter - YET AGAIN cleared by the legal department - saying they used January but needed 35 working days to inform you when last year it took them a maximum of 11 working days?

The above 3 points clearly demonstrate how TMobile have constantly changed both which months RPI they are referring to and their rationale for using it, none of which standup to scrutiny against either the T&Cs or of the events of 2012 or of what would be reasonable. The fact that each of the THREE DIFFERENT reasons were cleared by the legal department demonstrate the actions of a company trying to avoid its legal obligations under its own T&Cs. If this was not the case they would have said immediately that they had used Januarys figure, which in their opinion (although I think proved wrong by the above) complies with the T&Cs.

4. Why does the letter state current RPI, which at the time was 3.2%, if they wanted to use January they should have said that in the letter it was Januarys RPI.

5. Why was the same letter sent on the same day to both Pre and Post contract holders?

6. If TMobile were so confident in their ability to anticipate RPI in March why not have the letter ready to send out on 21st March and implement the price rise on 22nd May?
If TMobile are so good at forecasting RPI why did theynot write to Post Oct 2012 contract holders in Mid-January informing of the future (Current) RPI?


(On point 2 re Orange I have the letter if needed)