Tmobile price increase

d123

daveuk1 wrote: »

Shouldn't that address have a .com extension?

from their emails

Please respond to [EMAIL="executive.office@everythingeverywhere.co.uk"]executive.office@everythingeverywhere.co.uk[/EMAIL]

They told me they werent going to respond any further, perhaps im blocked.

RandomCurve

Finally received my email informing me why T-Mobile think they are not in Breach (I'm on a post Oct 2012 contract). It was the same as others posted here - Extracts from my response below:


"Yourdefence to my assertion that you have breached clause 7.2.3.3 of your T&C’sis that:

1. Whereyour T&C’s state “PUBLISHED on a date BEFORE”, you interpret that asmeaning:

2. “Publishedon a date as CLOSE TO”, which in the circumstances of this increase translatesto

3. “Publishedon a date AFTER”.

This interpretationis clearly absurd. As this letter was cleared by your legal department it demonstratesthat T-Mobile is either:

1. Fullyaware that it is in breach of contract, and is embarking on a course todeliberately frustrate my right to cancel the contract without penalty, or

2. T-Mobileis in breach of obligations imposed under the Supply of Goods and Services Act1982 whereby you have a duty to apply reasonable care and skill in your dischargeof the contract –a breach of this Act could give rise to a claim forcompensation for costs incurred. "

.......AND: (Blue is copied from their email - red is my response Definitions * = Concise English Dictionary - Ninth Edition.


"Clause7.2.3.3. of our terms state that we will use a statistical measure of RPI' published on a date as close asreasonably possible before the date' we provide our customers with written notice. (Note the T&Cs includethe word “BEFORE” definition* “earlierthan the time when….”)
We wrote to our customers between 02 April and 08 April informing them of thechanges to their price plan charge. In accordance with our terms andconditions, the relevant measure of RPI should reflect an RPI figure publishedon a date as close as reasonably possible to the date we providenotice. (Youhave replaced the word “BEFORE” in your T&Cs with the word “TO” in yourrationale - I can find no reference document that suggests that the two wordsare synonymous - definition* “Having thesame meaning”).

TheOffice of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for the period1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013 (Yes it did - this was at 9:30am on 16th April – 10 daysAFTER I Received your writtennotice – “AFTER” definition* “following in time; later than”). The official measure ofRPI for this period is 3.3%. This is in line with the 3.3% price increase wenotified customers of in April to take effect from 10th May. (This should read 9th May – I think you may be gettingconfused with the Orange letter, as Orange pulled this stunt effective 10thApril)."

..........AND:


"Forthe avoidance doubt note that my continued use of your network DOES NOTindicate that I do not want to terminate the contract, the use arises as a directconsequence of T-Mobile failing to performing it’s legal obligation to sendme a PAC and unlock code, and therefore continued use does not negate my rightto have the cancelation back dated to 12th April. "



Let's see where it goes from there - I'm enjoying this now!

d123

CISAS application now completed and submitted.

I'll update when i hear anything.

RandomCurve

For pre Oct 2012 customers another potential flaw in T-mobiles logic.

They are required to give you 30 days notice of the increase (they will claim they have - They wrote latest 8th April, increase effective the 9th or 10th May (depending on what T-Mobile feel like saying on the day).

But if you consider WHY they have to give you 30 days notice - it must partly be because you have to inform them IMMEDIATELY BEFORE the price rise comes into effect (7.2.3.3) if you want to cancel, and 30 days is deemed sufficient time. As they are saying they have used AN RPI published on 16th April they have reduced your right to cancelation to just 23 (or 24) days -which is a breach as effectively they are saying you can not consider your right to cancel until the RPI data is published.

boatman

tr26 wrote: »

Just had another email from the Executive Office:

"Thank you for your recent responsive email. I appreciate the time you have taken in this matter.

Your reference to the online address provided is acknowledged. Our terms and conditions give us the right to increase our price plan charges provided the increase is no higher than RPI and we provide customers with written notice of the change.

Notice that he mentions 'no higher than RPI', he does not say which rate of RPI he is referring to or when, careful wording.

tr26 wrote: »

The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for this period in April. The official measure of RPI for this period is 3.3%. This is in line with the 3.3% price increase that will take effect from 10th May. This means that customers wishing to end their contract with us, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3, will not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charge that may apply.

I trust that the above clarifies the position we have taken in this matter.

Yours sincerely

Colin Peters
Executive Office, EE"

He mentions April but is careful not to say exactly when in April, very telling. As others have pointed out they have said you can give 30 days notice to cancel or pay a cancellation charge, so yes we can leave our contracts early without charge provided we give 30 days notice and before the price changes take effect.

tylerdurdenk

I think that Colin wrote "or" instead of "and". Can we really use this error to our advantage even if we didn't receive the email/letter?

anna2007

d123 wrote: »

CISAS application now completed and submitted.

I'll update when i hear anything.

I now have my deadlock email, although I can't believe the nerve of these people :mad:, they told me:

"Your request to refer your complaint to the Communication & Internet Independent Adjudication Scheme for independent arbitration is declined. This is because the price increase is a business decision and as such falls outside the scope of the scheme. If you may remain unhappy with this business decision your next course of action would be to seek independent legal advice". This is despite the fact I made it clear in my last email that my complaint related to breach of contract, and that I had no complaint re: their business decision to increase prices.

Told them, in no uncertain terms, that I wasn't asking their permission to refer to CISAS.

For info, I emailed Olaf (and copied to the Exec.Office email address) this morning, saying if I hadn't had a reply by 5pm, I would take this to mean that they no longer disputed my notice to cancel without penalty - it worked - they replied at 4.45pm.

d123 - In your talks with CISAS before submitting your application, did they confirm that a complaint re: breach of contract was within their remit? OFCOM told me CISAS would be able to look at it, but I haven't spoken to CISAS yet.

d123

anna2007 wrote: »

.


d123 - In your talks with CISAS before submitting your application, did they confirm that a complaint re: breach of contract was within their remit? OFCOM told me CISAS would be able to look at it, but I haven't spoken to CISAS yet.

Yes, this is the body of my email from CISAS.

We note the points and concerns you have raised.

To use our service you must make a formal application after you have exhausted the company's formal complaints procedure. This can be done via our website at https://www.cisas.org.uk or alternatively you can apply by post.

As the company has already indicated to you that they will not be corresponding further with you, you are entitled to use the scheme.

Please note that “price increase” is generally an issue that falls outside of the scheme of CISAS because it is a business decision. However, in your case it is not the price increase as such, but the terms and conditions of your contract on which you would like to base you request of cancellation of your contract. This falls within the remit of CISAS.

With the above in mind, please provide your postal address for an application form and information pack to be sent to you. Alternatively you may apply online at https://www.cisas.org.uk.

RandomCurve

Have I missed something here. Why is everyone so desperate for a deadlock letter so they can go to CISAS? is there a law that says you have to via CISAS?

Can't you just start a small claim against T-Mobile. I think it will cost you about £35 to have the papers served, and if you win they have to pay your costs, if you loss you don't have to pay their costs!

The only issue with the small claims route is that each judge draws their own conclusion and precedents can't be set so you could have different outcomes with the same facts!

Anna2007 - I would treat your 2 contracts separately and do a claim for each, I really can't see how T-Mobile could possibly win on a post October 2012 contract. Pre October is a little murkier, but I think even if there is no one "killer punch" there are so many "little chinks" that at some stage the weight of evidence must move in your favour.

Also I think there is something about "irrecoverable breakdown" of the relationship - if you can prove that T-Mobile have been deliberately mis-leading you and deceitful - and I think you probably could - you may be able to get of the contract -but check this out as I only have a vague recollection of something along these lines.

d123

RandomCurve wrote: »

Have I missed something here. Why is everyone so desperate for a deadlock letter so they can go to CISAS? is there a law that says you have to via CISAS?

Can't you just start a small claim against T-Mobile. I think it will cost you about £35 to have the papers served, and if you win they have to pay your costs, if you loss you don't have to pay their costs!

The only issue with the small claims route is that each judge draws their own conclusion and precedents can't be set so you could have different outcomes with the same facts!

Anna2007 - I would treat your 2 contracts separately and do a claim for each, I really can't see how T-Mobile could possibly win on a post October 2012 contract. Pre October is a little murkier, but I think even if there is no one "killer punch" there are so many "little chinks" that at some stage the weight of evidence must move in your favour.

Also I think there is something about "irrecoverable breakdown" of the relationship - if you can prove that T-Mobile have been deliberately mis-leading you and deceitful - and I think you probably could - you may be able to get of the contract -but check this out as I only have a vague recollection of something along these lines.

Two things, CISAS rulings are binding on T-Mobile, so for the sake of 15 minutes and a bit of writing it could be resolved.

Also, T-Mobile have to bear the cost of the case, so every case going to CISAS costs them money. From memory it was a few £hundred some years ago. T-Mobile will be less than thrilled if they get hit by a large number of CISAS cases. Once the first group of cases get back to EE Exec Office they might well become a little more helpful.

Even if you don't get a positive CISAS outcome, there is nothing stopping you taking it to court afterwards, it's only binding on them.