Tmobile price increase

50Twuncle

I have received this from EE
They still continue to think that the % is acceptable :
Plus they appear to be working on the average RPI over the 12 months (1st April 2012 to 31March 2013) but just using the rate for April (2013 ??)


Thank you for your email.
Our terms and conditions give us the right to increase our price plan charges provided the increase is no higher than RPI and we provide customers with written notice of the change.
Clause 7.2.3.3 of these terms and conditions state that the relevant rate of RPI will reflect the 12 month period before the month in which we send customers written notice.
We wrote to our customers between 02 April and 08 April 2013 informing them of the changes to their price plan charge.
In accordance with our terms and conditions, the relevant measure of RPI should therefore reflect the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013.
The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for this period in April.
The official measure of RPI for this period is 3.3%.
This is in line with the 3.3% price increase that will take effect from 10th May.
This means that customers wishing to end their contract with us, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3, will not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charge that may apply.
I trust I have clarified our position.
Yours sincerely

Jonathan Baillie
Executive Office, EE

daveuk1

21Twinkle wrote: »

I have received this from EE
They still continue to think that the % is acceptable :
Plus they appear to be working on the average RPI over the 12 months (1st April 2012 to 31March 2013) but just using the rate for April (2013 ??)

...

The rate for April 2013 that they are using is a 12-month rate, i.e. it indicates the amount by which prices has risen in the 12-month period prior to April 2013 so what they are saying is consistent in that respect.

The issue boils down to whether they can use this rate even though it wasn't announced by the ONS until AFTER they sent out the letters.

50Twuncle

daveuk1 wrote: »

The rate for April 2013 that they are using is a 12-month rate, i.e. it indicates the amount by which prices has risen in the 12-month period prior to April 2013 so what they are saying is consistent in that respect.

The issue boils down to whether they can use this rate even though it wasn't announced by the ONS until AFTER they sent out the letters.

if this is the case -

A - 3.5
M - 3.1
J - 2.8
J - 3.2
A - 2.9
S - 2.6
O - 3.2
N - 3.0
D - 3.1
J - 3.2
F - 3.3
M - 3.3

Average RPI over the last 12 months is a mere 3.1% which is EVEN lower than the 3.2% assumed by others in this forum !!

anna2007

RandomCurve wrote: »

Have I missed something here. Why is everyone so desperate for a deadlock letter so they can go to CISAS? is there a law that says you have to via CISAS?.

In addition to d123's comments above, I think there's also an expectation by the courts that if there's an ADR scheme available to you, you've made use of this before resorting to the courts.

I haven't had any dealings with CISAS, but have used the other one (Otelo?) for a Vodafone complaint. I found Otelo to be genuinely helpful and impartial (Vodafone also backed down within about a week of the compaint being made to Otelo). I initially thought the T-Mobile issue was far more straightforward than my Vodafone complaint, until they claimed to be using the April rate. I still have faith in the process, however, and believe there's a good chance the adjudicator will see through all of EE's crap.

RandomCurve wrote: »

I would treat your 2 contracts separately and do a claim for each, I really can't see how T-Mobile could possibly win on a post October 2012 contract. Pre October is a little murkier, but I think even if there is no one "killer punch" there are so many "little chinks" that at some stage the weight of evidence must move in your favour.

Also I think there is something about "irrecoverable breakdown" of the relationship - if you can prove that T-Mobile have been deliberately mis-leading you and deceitful - and I think you probably could - you may be able to get of the contract -but check this out as I only have a vague recollection of something along these lines.

From what I've read on the CISAS website, you enter the total value of the claim you are making against T-Mobile. If the adjudicator then found in your favour for the latest agreement, but not the other, s/he would adjust the value of your claim accordingly.

Your second point - thanks for the tip - I'll look into this with a view to including it in the CISAS application.

anna2007

I seem to recall someone saying (may have been another forum) that there was a clause in the terms requiring T-Mobile to write to customers when their price increase was above RPI, informing them of their right to cancel without penalty?

I can't find any reference to it in the T&C's - does anyone know if this is right, and where I can find it in the terms?

ruflonger

Today I received an email from the Exec office

We wrote to our customers between 02 April and 08 April 2013 informing them of the changes to their price plan charge. In accordance with our terms and conditions, the relevant measure of RPI should therefore reflect the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013.

The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for this period in April. The official measure of RPI for this period is 3.3%. This is in line with the 3.3% price increase that will take effect from 10th May. Therefore due to this you are unable to end the term of your agreement without penalty.

Please be assured our customer's views are important to us and your comments are fully acknowledged.


I have responded as follows: (with thanks to anna2007 for some of the wording)


Notice to Terminate Contract – Without Penalty

I am disappointed with T-Mobiles disregard of its terms of service for pay monthly customers joining before 30 October 2012 and am writing to exercise my expressed right to cancel my contract without penalty as T-Mobile are in breach of the terms of service following your written notice to increase charges in excess of the increase in the RPI for ANY 12 months before the month in which you send me notice of the increase.
Your email today and letter of April 2013 (received approximately 6th April) informs me of an increase to my contract of 3.3%, and which T-Mobile Customer Services staff have been informing customers relates to the January RPI, however as the letter is dated April 2013 then 12 months before the month of the date of the letter would (I assume) be February (as March data is not published until 16th April) – when the RPI was 3.2% (Source ons. As the March RPI data did not exist at the time of writing T-Mobile could not possibly be referring to March RPI, as the letter states “(RPI) which is CURRENTLY at 3.3%.......”. Further T-Mobile was announcing a 3.3% price increase in the press as early as 1st March 2013 (47 days before this data was published)!

As per clause 7.2.3.3 states:
7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the Retail Price Index (also calculated as a percentage) for the 12 months before the month in which We send You Written Notice and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect.
the contract should be terminated immediately. Please notify me of the date of termination (“immediate” is not defined in the contract, however without prejudice to my right to cancel I am prepared to agree “immediate” as within 2 working days of receipt of this email). You should also provide a PAC code and any necessary unlock codes to enable me to take the mobile telephone and number to another mobile network.
For the avoidance of doubt by terminating this contract T-Mobile agrees this is without penalty as per the contract and agrees to provide usable Unlock and PAC codes, further if the contract is not terminated within the time frame stated above I will be in GENUINE DISPUTE with T-Mobile and as such I will exercise my contractual right to withhold all further payments (£**pm) until the dispute is settled. For the avoidance of doubt should the dispute be settled in T-Mobiles favor I will pay all sums due on the contract. I will leave the Direct Debit open, but T-Mobile are not authorised to use it until the dispute is resolved, if T-Mobile take sums out of my account I will reclaim the sums taken under the direct debit guarantee scheme. In addition as we are in a GENUINE DISPUTE T-Mobile should not seek further monthly payments from me nor take any action that may damage my credit history – if T-Mobile (or persons acting on T-mobiles instructions) takes any such actions I will seek legal redress through the courts for you to both repair my credit history AND for compensation.
Although this may not be the outcome you were hoping for I trust this clarifies T-mobiles position on this matter
I look forward to receiving my PAC and Unlock codes shortly.

Regards

shedder101

send the letter but remember you have to use the pac code before 30 days else your still with t mobile and libel to the charges.

i called them for my pac code and used it with a new supplier that then generated the letter they sent me demanding payment, i followed up my call with a recorded delivery letter to confirm why i cancelled and why, cant trust telephone calls.

stoney73

21Twinkle wrote: »

I have received this from EE
They still continue to think that the % is acceptable :
Plus they appear to be working on the average RPI over the 12 months (1st April 2012 to 31March 2013) but just using the rate for April (2013 ??)


Thank you for your email.
Our terms and conditions give us the right to increase our price plan charges provided the increase is no higher than RPI and we provide customers with written notice of the change.
Clause 7.2.3.3 of these terms and conditions state that the relevant rate of RPI will reflect the 12 month period before the month in which we send customers written notice.
We wrote to our customers between 02 April and 08 April 2013 informing them of the changes to their price plan charge.
In accordance with our terms and conditions, the relevant measure of RPI should therefore reflect the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013.
The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for this period in April.
The official measure of RPI for this period is 3.3%.
This is in line with the 3.3% price increase that will take effect from 10th May.
This means that customers wishing to end their contract with us, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3, will not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charge that may apply.
I trust I have clarified our position.
Yours sincerely

Jonathan Baillie
Executive Office, EE

I received the very same letter, from a Christine Dale(of Special Events?).
I have replied with this:

Dear Christine,


Thank you for replying. In your email you wrote that "relevant measure of RPI should therefore reflect the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013". Does mean it is an average of the months between 1 April '12 to 31 March '13? Or is it one specific month you are referring to? Kindly point me in the direction as to where you actually 'found' the RPI figures that T-Mobile are using ? I am requesting the specific month that you are basing the RPI increase on. If it is so straightforward and transparent, surely your response wouldn't be so vague?


Also, you state "The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for this period in April". Yes they did. on the 16th of April. Could you your kindly explain how T-Mobile knew of these figures before ONS published them? We both know that the correct RPI figure is 3.2% for the relevant month(March).

So I must insist that my account be terminated(and Pac codes issued) in 30 days time so as to avoid the cancellation charge.

Please count this as the start of my 30 days notice period, as per your email "This means that customers wishing to end their contract with us, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3, will not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charge that may apply"


Kind Regards,

Stoney73

daveuk1

stoney73 wrote: »

...
Thank you for replying. In your email you wrote that "relevant measure of RPI should therefore reflect the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013". Does mean it is an average of the months between 1 April '12 to 31 March '13? Or is it one specific month you are referring to? Kindly point me in the direction as to where you actually 'found' the RPI figures that T-Mobile are using ? I am requesting the specific month that you are basing the RPI increase on. If it is so straightforward and transparent, surely your response wouldn't be so vague?

This appears to be a common misunderstanding of the RPI rates and what they relate to. The 3.3% figure release on 16 April 2013 is the 12-month RPI figure reflecting the increase in prices (or rather a particular mechanism for measuring the increase in prices) in the 12 months prior to April 2013. It's not an average, as such.

stoney73 wrote: »

Also, you state "The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for this period in April". Yes they did. on the 16th of April. Could you your kindly explain how T-Mobile knew of these figures before ONS published them? We both know that the correct RPI figure is 3.2% for the relevant month(March).

So I must insist that my account be terminated(and Pac codes issued) in 30 days time so as to avoid the cancellation charge.

Please count this as the start of my 30 days notice period, as per your email "This means that customers wishing to end their contract with us, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3, will not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charge that may apply"


Kind Regards,

Stoney73

Based on their nonsense email that you quote, you're quite right, but their email is complete nonsense because a) you don't have to give 30 days notice to cancel under 7.2.3.3 and b) they've expressed themselves ambiguously but they clearly mean to say that you can't cancel without giving them 30 days notice AND paying applicable cancellation charges BECAUSE they don't accept that 7.2.3.3 applies in this instance.

powerful_Rogue

The missus is having an exchange of emails as Orange changed their terms and conditions without notifying customers and also because of the price increase. Appears the Executives Office at Everything Everywhere is under so much pressure they are sending out generic t-mobile emails out to Orange customers.!!

This is the latest email th missus received, had to chuckle as Orange do-sent have a clause 7.2.3.3!!

Thank you for your email dated 19 April 2013. I apologise for my delay in responding I have been out of the office.

I apologise if you believe that I did not address your issues however, I have spoken with our Legal Department and confirm our terms and conditions give us the right to increase our price plan charges provided the increase is no higher than RPI and we provide customers with written notice of the change. Clause 7.2.3.3 of our terms state that we will use a statistical measure of RPI' published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date' we provide our customers with written notice.

We wrote to our customers between 02 April and 08 April 2013 informing them of the changes to their price plan charge. In accordance with our terms and conditions, the relevant measure of RPI should reflect an RPI figure published on a date as close as reasonably possible to the date we provide notice.

The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013. The official measure of RPI for this period is 3.3%. This is in line with the 3.3% price increase we notified customers of in April to take effect from 10th May.

This means that customers wishing to end their contract with us, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3, will not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charge that may apply.

Whilst I appreciate this may not be the response you were hoping for, I trust I have explained my reasons behind my decision.

Kind Regards

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