Tmobile price increase

ryan92

albatli wrote: »

Hello everyone,

I was in holiday and I just came back to the UK.

I have received my PAC code by email and POST as well!

FINALLY I moved my number to another network!!

this is the response from T-Mobile on 12/23/2013:

######################################

Case Reference: *******
Account Number: *******

Please respond to: executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com

Dear Mr *******,

Thank you for your email, dated 28 November and 21 December 2013 addressed to Mr Olaf Swantee, regarding the Retail Price Index (RPI) price rise and request to cancel your agreement at no cost. I have been asked to reply on behalf of Mr Swantee. I apologise for the time taken to reply.

Your email states that TMobile is now changing the charges on the above account and under the Terms and Conditions (T'S & C's) you are requesting a PAC to be issued and to cancel the agreement at no cost. I confirm that I have now taken the mobile out of agreement and the PAC is ******* which expires on 21 January 2014. This means that there will be no buyout penalty. If you have not used the PAC by this date then you will remain as a TMobile customer and be billed accordingly. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I trust this is a satisfactory resolution to your request.


Yours sincerely


*******
Executive Assistant
Executive Office, EE.


######################################

Thank you RandomCurve for sharing the email form in this post #2176 :iloveyou:

Happy for you but fuming with EE even more now for the fact I know theyre at it!

everton2004

RandomCurve wrote: »

Very interesting - unfortunately they do not say that this is their final communication so you can't go to CISAS just yet. I would email them back asking them (up to you if use point 4 (do use point 5), this is the crux of my complaint about Ofcom):

1. If you cannot reveal why 3.2% is correct and 3.3% was incorrect how can I as a customer be sure that 3.2% is indeed correct? Therefore I need to know what the basis of 3.2% is (after all back in April you had told me that 3.3% was correct - and that now appears to be incorrect)!
2. You clearly state that 3.2% is a price INCREASE, but then say that you have lowered the price increase, but a lowered price increase is still an increase and therefore likely to be of material detriment to me. In any case USD 2002/22 is clear that ANY MODIFICATION gives rise to my right to a penalty free cancellation and imposes an obligation on you to write to me giving not less than 1 months notice of the change and informing me of my right to a penalty free cancellation.
3. Under the UTCCRs EE can not give itself the sole right to determine what Material Determent means, therefore you are obligated to write to me for changes that you make to our contract,
   1. Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:
      
      (m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.
4. I can not believe that Ofcom would allow (or even have the authority to allow) such a blatant disregard of GC 9.6 and the USD, nor allow EE to ignore its' obligations to customers under its own T&Cs, and the UTCCRs. Can you send me proof that Ofcom have indeed sanctioned this?
5. Irrespective of any announcement by Ofcom your contract is with me, not Ofcom, and I am entitled to expect you to adhere to clause 7.1.4 and 7.2.3.3, of our contract.
6. I trust the above clarifies my stance on this matter, please process my PENALTY FREE cancellation request back dated to XX, If you are unable to do this then please issue a deadlock reference so that I can proceed to CISAS without delay. If a deadlock reference is not forthcoming (assuming you still insist that I can not exit penalty free) then I will use this as evidence of EE deliberately attempting to frustrate my right to take this to adjudication and I will seek appropriate compensation.

Thanks for that reply, I was about to go the CISAS route!

I'll put the email together and fire it off, let's see what they have to say to that.

Many thanks so far for your tireless work on this, much appreciated. The world needs more RandomCurves :T

everton2004

Quick responses these days - here's the latest. In a nutshell, we're not answering your questions, we're not going to issue a deadlock reference and you can't go to CISAS:

Case Reference: xxxxxxx
Account Number: xxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your further email.

As the rise is less than the published RPI figure, EE does not feel this change is of material detriment. The rise in pricing is less than inflation so in real terms the amount paid for the service is lower than that at the start of the agreement. The terms and conditions of your agreement protects you from higher than inflation increases. Whilst I appreciate you may dispute this, I would be unable to agree that the change has been of material detriment.

If you are unsure if the overall price increase of 3.2% would be lower than the published RPI figure for that month, you are able to refer to the official published RPI figures. These are available to everyone on the internet. I recommend this website:

<link to office of national statistics website (unable to post as I'm a new user>

I would be unable to give you evidence that Ofcom have been involved in talks regarding the change which occurred. Any correspondence between EE and Ofcom would not be subject to disclosure.

The CISAS alternative dispute resolution service is not able to consider complaints or claims of this nature which relate to the fairness of the price increase. As a result, I would be unable to arrange a deadlock reference for you.

I apologise I can not be of further assistance.

Yours sincerely

Liam Walker
Executive Assistant, EE Executive Office

Oh, and the final sentence - pretty much 'now sod off'! Interesting!

RandomCurve

everton2004 wrote: »

Quick responses these days - here's the latest. In a nutshell, we're not answering your questions, we're not going to issue a deadlock reference and you can't go to CISAS:



Oh, and the final sentence - pretty much 'now sod off'! Interesting!

You can go to CISAS without EEs "permission" once you get to 8 weeks from the date you first contacted them, but in the meantime you can keep the pressure on EE as the more "rubbish" they tell you the greater the chance of getting some compensation from them (win or lose) when it does go to CISAS.


I have drafted the below for you - please amend as necessary.


Dear Mr Swantee,


Your latest communication does not address the substantive points that I have raised.


Can you confirm which months RPI figure you refer to in your opening paragraph?


As you will be perfectly well aware, RPI and Material Detriment are not linked, they are separate, so your statement that a price increase which is lower than RPI (if indeed it is) has no relevance as to whether or not the increase is of Material Detriment to me is clearly nonsense. As stated before under the UTTCRs EE does not have the right to determine what Material Detriment is (and latest Ofcom guidance is that Material Detriment in this context is any increase). Can you confirm that EE is assuming it has the sole right to determine the ambiguous phrase Material Detriment which EE placed in our contract?


I am pleased that you acknowledge that the terms of our contract protect me from increases above RPI, as at the time you contacted me (in November) the October RPI (published before you contacted me as per 7.2.3.3 of our contract) was 2.6% (you already have a link to the relevant website should you need to check this).


If you are unable to provide evidence of Ofcom communications, then they are irrelevant to our dispute and EE should refrain from referring to communications with Ofcom which may or may not have taken place.


You have not addressed my point that our contract is between EE and me, not EE and Ofcom, therefore regardless of any communication EE may have had with Ofcom I am still entitled to hold EE to its obligations under 7.1.4 and 7.2.3.3, please advise why EE does not believe it needs to comply with the terms of our contract?


I have never mentioned if this price rise is fair or not, so I fail to understand why you have used the term in your last paragraph please clarify your reasoning. Without a reason I can only conclude that this is a cynical ploy to try and prevent me from going to CISAS, and I will ask CISAS to consider if such behaviour demonstrates EE applying the required duty of care in conducting our contract. I have made it clear from the start that my complaint is that EE have deviated from the T&Cs of our contract in a way that triggers my right to a penalty free cancellation – and this is exactly the type of issue that CISAS is set-up to consider.


Please address the four issues highlighted in blue above and issue a deadlock reference immediately (CISAS can decide if it can or cannot address this issue – and if it can’t the Small Claims Court can).


Regards

ryan92

Yet another reply for my sister ;

Further to your letter dated 23 December 2013 addressed to Olaf Swantee, Chief Executive Officer EE Ltd. I have been asked to respond on Olaf's behalf.

I appreciate your comments regarding the price increase. However, as previously advised 'In this instance the increase of 3.2% is considered to be reasonable as it is in line with the RPI and is not of material detriment to our customers. As such we have provided our customer's with 30 days notice (as stated in our Terms and Conditions) but there is no obligation for the company to allow its customers to terminate their contract without charge.'

Due to the above our position in this matter remains unchanged.

Yours sincerely

So.... best way to reply to this one?

everton2004

RandomCurve wrote: »

You can go to CISAS without EEs "permission" once you get to 8 weeks from the date you first contacted them, but in the meantime you can keep the pressure on EE as the more "rubbish" they tell you the greater the chance of getting some compensation from them (win or lose) when it does go to CISAS.


I have drafted the below for you - please amend as necessary.

Thanks again. Fired this off to them this morning, I wonder what I'll get back from them this time! I think the odds are pretty high that they're aware of this thread and probably read these replies before we send them :rotfl:

RandomCurve

ryan92 wrote: »

Yet another reply for my sister ;



So.... best way to reply to this one?

I would try the below - or something close to it. EE are trying to confuse the issue by raising the question of Material Detriment - which in the context of this dispute is irrelevant.


Also interesting that for you the price rise is "in line with RPI", but for Everton2004 the price rise is "below RPI".


Dear Mr Swantee,


Thank you for your email of XX


Unfortunately you have failed to address the points that I have raised before and fail to explain how a communication advising of a price increase received by me in November can reference any other rate than October’s rate of 2.6%, under clause 7.2.3.3. You also fail to explain why you have disregarded your obligations under clause 7.1.4, (and GC 9.6 and USD 20/22), and have also failed to address under what clause of the contract EE believes it has the right to make adjustments to previously applied price increases.


Additionally you have now raised the question of Material Detriment in regards to this dispute and have used the term “reasonableness”. I have not raised this as an issue as Material Detriment is irrelevant to my point that EE has deviated from our contract in a way that triggers my right to a penalty free cancellation. The only relevance that Material Detriment may have on this dispute is that under the UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, (m) EE cannot unilaterally decide what is and is not of Material Detriment to me, and that is exactly why you are required to write to me giving 30 days’ notice of changes to my price plan.


I once again request that EE cancel my contract – penalty free – as required under the T&Cs and USD 20(2). For the avoidance of doubt any PAC code issued by EE that has a termination charge associated with it will be:

• A Gross breach of contract
• An offence under the Unsolicited Goods and Serviced Act 1971 (both T-Mobile and its officers will be liable); and
• A Breach of GC 11.1.

Should your position remain that you are unable to process my request then please issues a CISAS Deadlock reference as this dispute involves how EE have mis-applied their T&Cs and has nothing to do with the business decision to increase prices.




Regards

RandomCurve

everton2004 wrote: »

Thanks again. Fired this off to them this morning, I wonder what I'll get back from them this time! I think the odds are pretty high that they're aware of this thread and probably read these replies before we send them :rotfl:

You would think that they might monitor these forums, but from the range of replies we have seen to the same initial letter appears they may not, unless they just want to see our responses to all of their various tactics!

everton2004

Well I got another reply....and it seems Mr Walker has given me his final word on the matter :eek:

Case Reference: xxxxxxx
Account Number: xxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your further email.

To clarify, whilst EE is unable to specifically define what is of material detriment on an individual basis, EE does not feel the price increase was of material detriment as the increase was less than the published RPI for that month. I appreciate you may disagree with this, and you are able to seek advice on this matter if you feel the need to do so.

We published our pay monthly price increases in writing in the media and online at t-mobile.co.uk/pricechanges on 01 March 2013 using the latest available RPI figure of 3.3% published 12 February 2013. This was followed up with a letter to customers in the first week of April 2013.

EE has complied with the terms and conditions of the contract. I have confirmed this in our previous correspondences. Unfortunately I will be unable to re-clarify the points already addressed.

I apologise if you consider the terminology used in my previous email in anyway misleading. I confirm the CISAS alternative dispute resolution service is not able to consider complaints or claims of this nature which relate to a price increase. As a result, I would be unable to arrange a deadlock reference for you. EE would only provide a deadlock reference when an unresolved dispute falls under the remit of CISAS.

As I trust I have fully explained our position in relation to this issue, I may be unable to respond to further emails regarding this issue. If you have any new issues, we will continue to assist where possible.

I apologise I can not be of further assistance.

Yours sincerely

Liam Walker
Executive Assistant, EE Executive Office

....Still insisting that CISAS has no jurisdiction in this matter. Time for CISAS? :huh:

ryan92

Thanks for that, sent along that email to the chancers just there.
How long do CISAS normally take with a claim?