Tmobile price increase

ryan92

RandomCurve wrote: »

Would you mind if I sent a copy of the letter your sister received to Ofcom? EE are trying to mislead you as to the date of their letter AND to what the USD says - the USD is ANY MODIFICATION and has nothing to do with Material Detriment.

Ofcom will nothing, but by sending that to them and them not taking action helps to build my case against Ofcom for being in collusion with EE.

It really makes me :mad: that EE just lie, lie and lie again in the hope of creating so much confusion that people give-up!

Absolutely , go for it!
In terms of my sister, how should I respond to the totallly misleading email?

virgo17

tiddles1 wrote: »

As T-Mobile has reached the end of our internal complaints procedure in relation to this dispute and explained our final position, you can seek external advise on the matter.

One might also have a little more regard for Mr Sewell if he were able to write using the correct grammar and knew the difference between 'advise' and the word he meant to write, 'advice'.

Pathetic.

RandomCurve

ryan92 wrote: »

Absolutely , go for it!
In terms of my sister, how should I respond to the totallly misleading email?

Reply with the standard response I posted for your response to EE, but take out the "statement 1" as they do not address it in their response to your sister.

Strategically I have decided against writing to Ofcom on these responses just yet. Ofcom have assisted EE in reaching this decision and if Ofcom think this is being challenged at CISAS they may "lean on" CISAS to decide in EEs favour (I may be getting paranoid, but I've seen so many twists and turns and half truths and straight lies from EE and Ofcom that I think I may be justified in my paranoia).

It would be far better if EE lost at CISAS before contacting Ofcom, because I can then ask Ofcom why the independent adjudicator appointed by them is ruling against Ofcom's guidance to EE, when Ofcom insist they have played this straight!

I will put a generic CISAS claim on the forum based on the responses people have been posting on the forum. I'll try and get that done early in the New Year, it won't be too dissimilar to emails sent to EE.

If anybody else wants to put a CISAS case on the forum for us to discuss feel free.

everton2004

Well I got a rather swift reply (less than 24 hours!) from our friends at EE:

Case Reference: xxxxxxx
Account Number: xxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your reply.

Unfortunately your agreement can not be ended without incurring a buyout fee. I would be unable to confirm the full reasons for amending the price increase from 3.3% to 3.2%, as this was a business decision. Business decisions are not subject to disclosure.

The price increase was originally 3.3%. As you upgraded in February 2013, T-Mobile made the decision to freeze your price increase at 3.2% for six months before implementing the full 3.3% price increase in November 2013. However, due to this new change, we have opted to make 3.2% price increase permanent for you.

I confirm the amendment does not constitute a cancellation of the original 3.3% price increase and a new price increase of 3.2% in November. T-Mobile has lowered the price increase by 0.1%, which is not a detrimental change as it lowers the price of the plan. T-Mobile has consulted with Ofcom on this matter.

I trust this clarifies my stance on this matter.

Yours sincerely

Liam Walker
Executive Assistant, EE Executive Office

The plot thickens!

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for all your help and sterling work so far on this matter and to wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! :beer:

ryan92

I also received a response today ;

Thank you for your further email addressed to Olaf Swantee, Chief Executive Officer, EE.

I am aware of the response that has been issued by Laura Browning of my office; Mr Swantee has asked that I respond to your recent claims.

I would have liked to discuss this matter with you over the phone however as you continue to write in, I accept that you do not wish to discuss the matter verbally and would like to communicate in writing, I am happy to comply with this arrangement.

In regard to the Retail Price Index (RPI) increase which we announced in March 2013, there was a slight technicality in the wording and how the RPI increase had been calculated. The true figure was in fact 3.3% but this was reduced to 3.2% after discussions with OFCOM. There are new regulations coming in to force in 2014 which may or may not affect you with regard to any future increases. These conditions will be made public knowledge and issued to you once finalised.

Your continued requests to have your agreement ended without penalty are disregarded and you will remain held to the current Terms and Conditions of your agreement. We will not be issuing a further response in regard to this matter as our position is firm.

It is possible for you to seek independent legal advice should you wish to pursue the matter outside of EE but please accept this email as our final response.

I am aware this is not likely to be the expected response but trust our position is confirmed.


Yours sincerely

Hope you all have a good Christmas and a Happy New Year. 2014 ; the year we get EEven!

ryan92

Still no response to my Sister ; how should I approach CISAS in terms of my complaint given they said the matter is over in their eyes?

RandomCurve

Happy New Year to you all.


Below is a CISAS claim that you should just be able to copy and paste into the CISAS claim form (it is less than 750 words) which can be found here:

http://www.cisas.org.uk/Makeanapplication-25_e.html

Don't forget to update the Red dates as relevant to you.

When you follow the link above you will need to enter some details (name address etc etc) there are also some drop down boxes - most are self explanatory, but here is some guidance:

• 'Dispute Type'- contract Terms
• 'What do you want the company to do?'
  • 'take some action' - Give a penalty free cancellation and a PAC and unlock code
• 'Give you money' *

* the amount you put in this box is the MAXIMUM they will give you, you will see from the claim below that I have put in 3 lots of 25 pounds, you could increase that to 3 lots of 50 pounds if you wanted to, but sticking with 3x25 = 75 pounds. BUT you also need to add on the monthly cost of your contract from the date you requested cancellation to the end of the contract (as you do not know how long this will take to resolve) so if you have 13 months to run on a contract at 20pound per month that would be 13*20 = 260 + 75 = 335. you can also claim the amount prepaid so if your contact runs from the 10th of one month to the 9th of the next and you requested cancellation on say 21st then you have prepaid (20pound/31*19days = 12.25p so the total claim is 335+12.25=347.25. in the explanation box you enter 347.25 - 75 compensation for contract/rule breaches, 272.25 being the sums paid/due under the contract from 21st November to the end of the contract I expect EE to adjust this to ensure the correct amount is refunded dependent on the adjudication date.


You will also have an option to upload "evidence" or to submit that separately by email - I suggest you submit it separately via email (as the attachments method did not work when I tried to do it that way). The evidence is just the emails you have sent EE and the responses you have received. If you have a copy of the Text they sent in November and you can "copy" it into an email then use that too.


Background
Without prejudice clause 7.1.4 purports to allow T-Mobile (EE) to impose a price rise in our contract. My claim against EE relates to how their terms and conditions (T&Cs) have been applied and not to EEs decision to increase prices.

My claim against EE relates to how their T&Cs have been applied in regards to the price rise effective November 2013 which EE have tried to link to the price rise implemented in May 2013, and the manner in which EE have implemented that increase ignoring their own T&Cs (7.1.4), and ignoring their obligations under both General Condition 9.6 and the Universal Service Directive 2002/22/EC, Chapter IV, Article 20 Paragraph 4.

This case does not involve complex issues of law merely an understanding of EEs T&Cs, GC 9.6 and USD 2002/22 all of which should be readily understandable by a telecommunications adjudication service.

The Facts:

• In April 2013 I received a letter from T-Mobile (EE) informing me of a price increase to be implemented on 9th May 2013 –EE were referencing the January RPI of 3.3%.
• January RPI was the WRONG RPI to use as under the T&Cs EE should have used Februarys RPI (3.2%)
• On 20th November 2013 I received a communication from EE informing me that they were ‘adjusting’ the previously applied price rise by 0.1% this communication was not compliant with T&C 7.1.4 nor GC 9.6.
  

My Claim against EE

• The contract does not allow for EE to ‘adjust’ previously applied price increases.
• As no ‘adjustments’ are allowed in the T&Cs then the substance of EEs notification in November is in fact two separate transactions
  
  1. The cancellation of the incorrect price increase (3.3%), and
  2. The application of a new price rise
• According to our contract 7.2.3.3 if EE apply a price increase over and above that published before they write to me than I have the right to cancel my contract penalty free
• The October RPI rate (October being the current RPI rate published on 12th November – i.e. before EE contacted me) was 2.6%.
• As EE have applied a rate of 3.2% which is higher than the 2.6% allowed under our contract then I have exercised my right under clause7.2.3.3 and requested a penalty free cancellation
• As EE have denied my request they are in breach of our contract 7.2.3.3.
• In addition to the above the contract requires that EE write to me giving 30 days’ notice of any price rises clause 7.1.4 – EE have breached this term of the contract
• GC 9.6 requires EE (indeed all CPs) to write to customers giving 30 days’ notice before they can increase price plans, they are also required to explain my cancellation rights – EE have not complied with GC 9.6 in their price rise advised in November 2013
• Under the USD ANY MODIFICATION to my contract requires EE to write me and to offer me the opportunity to cancel my contract penalty free- EE have not complied with this directive when increasing prices in November 2013.
  

Redress sought

• A back dated penalty free contract termination to XX/XX/2013 when first requested.
• A PAC and unlock’ code to allow me to transfer my number and phone to another provider
• Compensation from EE (25 pounds) for not complying with its’ own T&Cs (initially 7.1.4 and then 7.2.3.3)
• Compensation from EE (25 pounds) for not complying with GC 9.6
• Compensation from EE (25 pounds) for disregarding its obligations under the USD
  

Without prejudice to the above:

• Under the Universal Service Directive - 2002/22/EC, Chapter IV, Article 20 Paragraph 4, ANY MODIFICATION applied to my account triggers my right to a penalty free cancellation.
• EE as an experienced CP would be aware of the contents of the USD and by modifying my contract in November 2013 without referencing my cancellation rights they have tried to deny me my those rights

Redress sought

• A back dated penalty free contract termination to XX/XX/2013 when first requested.
• A PAC and unlock’ code to allow me to transfer my number to another provider
• Compensation from EE (25 pounds) for disregarding its obligations under the USD

RandomCurve

everton2004 wrote: »

Well I got a rather swift reply (less than 24 hours!) from our friends at EE:


Quote:
Case Reference: xxxxxxx
Account Number: xxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your reply.

Unfortunately your agreement can not be ended without incurring a buyout fee. I would be unable to confirm the full reasons for amending the price increase from 3.3% to 3.2%, as this was a business decision. Business decisions are not subject to disclosure.

The price increase was originally 3.3%. As you upgraded in February 2013, T-Mobile made the decision to freeze your price increase at 3.2% for six months before implementing the full 3.3% price increase in November 2013. However, due to this new change, we have opted to make 3.2% price increase permanent for you.

I confirm the amendment does not constitute a cancellation of the original 3.3% price increase and a new price increase of 3.2% in November. T-Mobile has lowered the price increase by 0.1%, which is not a detrimental change as it lowers the price of the plan. T-Mobile has consulted with Ofcom on this matter.

I trust this clarifies my stance on this matter.

Yours sincerely

Liam Walker
Executive Assistant, EE Executive Office

Very interesting - unfortunately they do not say that this is their final communication so you can't go to CISAS just yet. I would email them back asking them (up to you if use point 4 (do use point 5), this is the crux of my complaint about Ofcom):

1. If you cannot reveal why 3.2% is correct and 3.3% was incorrect how can I as a customer be sure that 3.2% is indeed correct? Therefore I need to know what the basis of 3.2% is (after all back in April you had told me that 3.3% was correct - and that now appears to be incorrect)!
2. You clearly state that 3.2% is a price INCREASE, but then say that you have lowered the price increase, but a lowered price increase is still an increase and therefore likely to be of material detriment to me. In any case USD 2002/22 is clear that ANY MODIFICATION gives rise to my right to a penalty free cancellation and imposes an obligation on you to write to me giving not less than 1 months notice of the change and informing me of my right to a penalty free cancellation.
3. Under the UTCCRs EE can not give itself the sole right to determine what Material Determent means, therefore you are obligated to write to me for changes that you make to our contract,
   1. Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:
      
      (m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.
4. I can not believe that Ofcom would allow (or even have the authority to allow) such a blatant disregard of GC 9.6 and the USD, nor allow EE to ignore its' obligations to customers under its own T&Cs, and the UTCCRs. Can you send me proof that Ofcom have indeed sanctioned this?
5. Irrespective of any announcement by Ofcom your contract is with me, not Ofcom, and I am entitled to expect you to adhere to clause 7.1.4 and 7.2.3.3, of our contract.
6. I trust the above clarifies my stance on this matter, please process my PENALTY FREE cancellation request back dated to XX, If you are unable to do this then please issue a deadlock reference so that I can proceed to CISAS without delay. If a deadlock reference is not forthcoming (assuming you still insist that I can not exit penalty free) then I will use this as evidence of EE deliberately attempting to frustrate my right to take this to adjudication and I will seek appropriate compensation.

albatli

Hello everyone,

I was in holiday and I just came back to the UK.

I have received my PAC code by email and POST as well!

FINALLY I moved my number to another network!!

this is the response from T-Mobile on 12/23/2013:

######################################

Case Reference: *******
Account Number: *******

Please respond to: executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com

Dear Mr *******,

Thank you for your email, dated 28 November and 21 December 2013 addressed to Mr Olaf Swantee, regarding the Retail Price Index (RPI) price rise and request to cancel your agreement at no cost. I have been asked to reply on behalf of Mr Swantee. I apologise for the time taken to reply.

Your email states that TMobile is now changing the charges on the above account and under the Terms and Conditions (T'S & C's) you are requesting a PAC to be issued and to cancel the agreement at no cost. I confirm that I have now taken the mobile out of agreement and the PAC is ******* which expires on 21 January 2014. This means that there will be no buyout penalty. If you have not used the PAC by this date then you will remain as a TMobile customer and be billed accordingly. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I trust this is a satisfactory resolution to your request.


Yours sincerely


*******
Executive Assistant
Executive Office, EE.


######################################

Thank you RandomCurve for sharing the email form in this post #2176 :iloveyou:

RandomCurve

albatli wrote: »

Hello everyone,

I was in holiday and I just came back to the UK.

I have received my PAC code by email and POST as well!

FINALLY I moved my number to another network!!

this is the response from T-Mobile on 12/23/2013:

######################################

Case Reference: *******
Account Number: *******

Please respond to: [EMAIL="executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com"]executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com[/EMAIL]

Dear Mr *******,

Thank you for your email, dated 28 November and 21 December 2013 addressed to Mr Olaf Swantee, regarding the Retail Price Index (RPI) price rise and request to cancel your agreement at no cost. I have been asked to reply on behalf of Mr Swantee. I apologise for the time taken to reply.

Your email states that TMobile is now changing the charges on the above account and under the Terms and Conditions (T'S & C's) you are requesting a PAC to be issued and to cancel the agreement at no cost. I confirm that I have now taken the mobile out of agreement and the PAC is ******* which expires on 21 January 2014. This means that there will be no buyout penalty. If you have not used the PAC by this date then you will remain as a TMobile customer and be billed accordingly. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I trust this is a satisfactory resolution to your request.


Yours sincerely


*******
Executive Assistant
Executive Office, EE.


######################################

Thank you RandomCurve for sharing the email form in this post #2176 :iloveyou:

This does seem like good news - has anybody else had the same result?


Can you share the response you received from EE to your initial email of 28th November, and the email that you sent to EE on 21st December?


It would also be useful to know the name of the Executive Assistant who sent you the email above.