WINGS PARKING: At it again??

venus_12

Dear All,
i'm apologise in advance if it seems i'm harping on about something which has already been discussed at length, but I'm after reassurance/clear guidance really..

Basically I live in Lewisham in a Part owned/rented a flat from LandQ Housing. The flat I bought has an allocated parking bay in the land around the back of the property.. Yes other flats with out parking bays were parking willy nilly in this area at the back of the block of flats, sometimes blocking access to the bins which stopped them from being emptied ( which was of course a problem) . Last year I received a letter from L and Q stating to park in the bay (which i owned) i needed a permit which i was supposed to go and collect from their offices. I didn't collect this permit ( dont why why!!) and now 1 year on i have had 2 PARKING CHARGE NOTICES from WING PARKING. issued within the last 4 days Issue reason : NO PARKING PERMITT.:eek:

I just find it riddiculous and am annoyed that I have to have a permitt to park in my own parking bay and that i have now have 2 fines to pay.:mad:
I feel vulnerable because yes I did not have a permit whilst parked there; admittedly there have been notices displayed in the car park for about a year saying you need a permitt to park there and not having one will result in parking charge notices.
i'm going to collect my permit tomorrow now...

But What I'd like to know is ..
1. I understand the advice is to ignore the charge notices and the letters from solicitors and debt collection agencies which may now follow.. because they cannot take me to court -correct? even tho i am in the wrong because i didn't have a permit?

2. will not paying the parking charge notice affect my future credit rating in any way? I want to purchase more shares in the property I live in so i eventually own it outright which will obviously involve credit checks.
i'd hate for this riddiculousness to ruin my chances of doing so.. do i begrudgingly pay the £120 for the 2 parking charge notices.:(
thank you in advance for your advice.

Venus 12

Coupon-mad

to extort money for the hell of it?

Answered here recently in this thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4478533

You understand wrong, the 'ignore' advice is less common now.

You can still ignore it but I'd recommend a strong appeal and then Wing will fail to abide by the BPA CoP so that you can then get the fake PCN cancelled at their expense at POPLA (read threads about it).

Wing have not got the hang of proper rejection letters with a POPLA code yet (if ever!) so don't prompt them about POPLA, just do a challenge letter and see what rubbish you get back. Let us know what you do get in response, it will be a pile of trash just like in that other thread.


HTH

The_Slithy_Tove

Even though you "own" the parking space, Housing Associations are a bit different from the normal leasehold property. Check both the lease and also any agreements with the HA regarding the parking space. If they say you effectively own the space, and also if they don't say that the HA can impose certain conditions on it, then you can write to the HA and tell them that they have no authority to impose a permit scheme over your parking space, and they must instruct their agents (Wing) to cease trespassing on your property and placing their unlawful tickets there. If they don't, they will be jointly liable for Wing's actions.

venus_12

thank you for your replies.
so let me clarify.. in reponse to the very helpful first post
I appeal to wings straight away (before paying anything)? then when they reject it appeal to the POPLA?

Also in addition to the second very helpful post I have gone through the terms of my lease and have found 2 section that i think may be useful..

In an initial section of the lease (I think this is the 'head lease')
A section titled
Restrictions on Parking;

3(24) (a) not to park or to suffer or permit to be parked upon any parking space allocated to the premises (if any) ay vehicle other than a private motor car whic is taxed and in a roadworthy condition or any such other motor vehicle as may be first approved in writing by the Landlord acting in its aboslute discretion at any time.
3(24) (b) Not to park on any part of the Estate a commercial vehicle exceeding 15 cwt.(unladen weight) except where thee same results from the temporary use of removal or delivery vans.

The Seconds section is titled
Schedule-Easement Rights and Privileges:
The right for the leaseholder and all persons authorised by the Leaseholder at all times for all purposes incidental to the enjoyment of the premises to park a single private motor vehicle on the parking space shown edged blue and labelled bay 9 on the plan (if any) or such other space as the Landlord shall from time to time allocate within the Estate which vehicle is to be maintained in a roadworthy condition and is to comply with all legal requirements for being driven on the public highway.

i'm beggining to think that this single car parking permit system is at odds with my status as leaseholder?
additionally will the above information form the foundation for my appeal to both wings and then
POPLA
i think i'm clear....
thanks for your input.

venus 12

Coupon-mad

to extort money for the hell of it?

Yep you got it, ''(before paying anything)'' ?? of course you won't be PAYING anything, it's just a scam, not a fine!

And yep, those quotes from your lease are very relevant IMHO. The permit scheme is seemingly incompatible with your status as leaseholder - and the lease takes precedence over any alleged 'charge' from a third party (Wing) who are in fact trespassing on YOUR LAND very like UKPC did to their cost recently:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4445855

Throw all that at Wing. I expect them to send you a standard rejection which, going by that other thread, doesn't even comply with the BPA Code of Practice as they don't offer a POPLA code.

So when you get the rejection offering instead a second tier appeal to the HA I would COMPLAIN in writing to the HA that not only are their agents trespassing (and you are minded to sue them for harassment like Davey v UKPC recently) but secondly, their agents are breaching the BPA Code of Practice as they are not offering POPLA appeal codes.

And of course, report Wing to the BPA and to the DVLA to boot!

But first, do the appeal to Wing to elicit that rejection letter without the POPLA code...

venus_12

Coupon Mad and the Slithey Toad thank you so much for your help with this..

cant believe i was actually going to pay them!!
ha ha i'm getting really excited about this now!!
I'll keep you posted with any replies i receive!!!!
venus 12

venus_12

Since my last post,I have attempted to challenge the PCN's that were issued to my car. Now i appealed to wings parking they reelected all my appealsfor the 3 tickets, with a comprehensive response and refused to give me a the verification code for POPLA when I requested it. Wings parking say because they answered my complaint in full they say they didn't need to give me this code. I'm now getting letters from "debt recovery plus ( who wings have passed my details on to ) saying they are taking me to court if I don't pay up. I've contacted my landlord the housing association( as my property is part rent part buy) they say I'm liable because they own the land that the parking space is on, and they're is nothing they can do because it's passed on to wings and its out of their hands. The court letters are scary, should I cave in and pay? I'd be grateful for any advice.

Coupon-mad

to extort money for the hell of it?

venus_12 wrote: »

Since my last post,I have attempted to challenge the PCN's that were issued to my car. Now i appealed to wings parking they reelected all my appealsfor the 3 tickets, with a comprehensive response and refused to give me a the verification code for POPLA when I requested it. Wings parking say because they answered my complaint in full they say they didn't need to give me this code. I'm now getting letters from "debt recovery plus ( who wings have passed my details on to ) saying they are taking me to court if I don't pay up. I've contacted my landlord the housing association( as my property is part rent part buy) they say I'm liable because they own the land that the parking space is on, and they're is nothing they can do because it's passed on to wings and its out of their hands. The court letters are scary, should I cave in and pay? I'd be grateful for any advice.

Of course you do not PAY!!!

Did they put that bit in bold, refusing POPLA codes, in writing?! :eek:

Email a formal complaint about Wing (please get their name right when complaining about them - they are not called 'Wings') and attach copies of their letters/emails to the BPA and DVLA.

s[EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]teve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Their behaviour requires sanctions by the BPA, I would say. So be proactive and report them even if you have done so before!

The_Slithy_Tove

+1 on C-M's advice. Do get very stroppy with the BPA and insist this is investigated and that you are informed of the next steps, including having them force Wing to call off the debt collectors. Don't let them get away with weasel words and brushing under the carpet - their favourite passtimes.

Oh, and get back on to the housing association and put a rocket under them. Typical buck passing. Their excuse of "they're is nothing they can do because it's passed on to wings and its out of their hands" is complete tosh and they know it. It may be helpful to remind them that they are responsible for the actions of their contractors (Wing), they are the masters, not Wing, and that they (the HA) will find themselves jointly liable for the Harrassment lawsuit you will bring against them for the actions of thier agent (Wing).

You may also like to bring to the HA's attention how Wing are blatently disregarding the Code of Practice they MUST follow, and how come they employ such an utterly disreputable company.

MothballsWallet

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

You may also like to bring to the HA's attention how Wing are blatently disregarding the Code of Practice they MUST follow, and how come they employ such an utterly disreputable company.

Hmm. I do wonder how much of a dam a HA would give - they employ an agent company which has certain rules it must obey, agent disobeys those on at least one occasion, HA does not need to care.

It would be interesting to know whether the HA has even bothered to consult their own legal department before saying anything.

Also, OP, you might want to request a copy of the contract between the HA and Wing (C-M will be able to advise whether this would be useful or not) - doubt they'll provide it though, a lot of the PPCs mentioned on this board don't when it's requested.

HO87

+ 1. WP having been taking this stance for some while and if they want to be able to us the so-called benefits of the Protections of Freedoms Act then must be prepared to abide by it and the conditions under which the DfT enacted the keeper liability section. They are members of the Approved Operator Scheme and they either abide by the Code of Practice or they don't.

In addition, if they do not call off the debt collectors then you could always threaten to join the BPA Ltd in any action against WP for harassment. That might shake up BPA Towers. Sometimes one gets the impression that they believe they are above all of the shenanigans at the sharp end of their "business". Having to appear before someone of the ilk of HHJ McIlwaine (a judge who threatened a parking company representative that if she continued her line in court then he would adjourn matters and suggest that she brought her toothbrush with her when the case reconvened).