Immigration vital to the Nation's finances...

dktreesea

wotsthat wrote: »

I was looking at the basic headline.....



It's obvious really - the intention of most immigrants is to work.

This stat doesn't mean that they are/ will be beneficial to the UK economy but it's important to get the basic facts right.

Yes, they may well come to work, and work when they get here but the current loophole in our benefits system is that provided you work the required hours, regardless of how much you earn, you get immediate access to benefits like CTC, WTC and CB, and eventual access to the remainder, like housing benefit, once you satisfy the habitual residence test.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

I was looking at the basic headline.....



It's obvious really - the intention of most immigrants is to work.

This stat doesn't mean that they are/ will be beneficial to the UK economy but it's important to get the basic facts right.

Very large numbers of big issue sellers are romanians.
If you sell a few a week you can register as self employed.
Benefits are then open to you.

The big issue organisation supports and coaches the immigrant on how to work the system.

Sampong

CLAPTON wrote: »

The big issue organisation supports and coaches the immigrant on how to work the system.

This doesn't surprise me - I would be interested to see evidence of that or a link to a report/article if you have it.

If substantiated it would go to show how contrived the Big Issue organisation is - the ethos behind it is that it is supposed to help homeless people get off the street and get their lives back on track. Encouraging Roma into the country hardly helps in reducing the number of homeless.

This is the problem with charitable organisations these days - you don't know exactly where your money is going to end up.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Hang on- I don't think the Big Issue advertises in Romania, tempting people to come to Britain.

They offer advice to the homeless on becoming self employed as a step up off the streets, and I imagine they offer that advice to all who need it, regardless of their origin. The whole ethos of the magazine is that it turns people from beggars asking for handouts into vendors offering a product. It's not their fault if the UK's benefit system allows that philosophy to be exploited.

Sampong

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

Hang on- I don't think the Big Issue advertises in Romania, tempting people to come to Britain.

They offer advice to the homeless on becoming self employed as a step up off the streets, and I imagine they offer that advice to all who need it, regardless of their origin. The whole ethos of the magazine is that it turns people from beggars asking for handouts into vendors offering a product. It's not their fault if the UK's benefit system allows that philosophy to be exploited.

It's well known though that a large proportion of Big Issue vendors are Roma Gypsies using it as a route to gaining "self employment" status in the UK and hence gain access to the benefits system.

One way or the other it is being exploited and it would seem the Big Issue foundation either haven't taken steps to mitigate this or if they have - these steps have failed.

You seem to be missing the point that this is taking away opportunity - or possibly should I describe that as a lifeline from genuine people who have fallen on hardship and are genuinely in need.

This is the point you seem to be missing.

Hence - it could be argued that by buying the Big Issue magazine - or donating to the charity - you are funding an organisation that makes it possible for hundreds or even thousands of Roma gypies to come to the UK and exploit the benefits system - instead of your money going to help those who genuinely need it.

Are you happy with this situation?

CLAPTON

The source was an long interview on radio 4 a year or so ago with the director for the Northern region.

She stated that over 40% of the big issue sellers in her region were Romanian and mainly Roma.
She explicitly said that they actively encouraged Romas to come to the UK as they were an oppressed minority in their own country and that we had a responsibility for everyone.

I do not have a reference as it was quite a while ago.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

Very large numbers of big issue sellers are romanians.
If you sell a few a week you can register as self employed.
Benefits are then open to you.

The big issue organisation supports and coaches the immigrant on how to work the system.

If the rules currently limiting Romanian access to benefits are so easy to bypass it makes me think that anyone from Romania who wants to be here already is.

A good proxy for seeing what will happen is to look at Slovak immigration. Roma are a large minority population in Slovakia and very poor so they'll be a large proportion of the total Slovakian immigrants. I don't think the numbers are large but I'd bet that Slovaks claim proportionally more benefits than say Poles.

Unfortunately I have to bet based on anecdotal experience because government data is so poor. I don't think we should allow open access to anyone but I wonder how big the problem really is.

Sampong

wotsthat wrote: »

If the rules currently limiting Romanian access to benefits are so easy to bypass it makes me think that anyone from Romania who wants to be here already is.

Easy to bypass but limited opportunity to do so.

I think you are wrong but either way we don't have long to wait to find out if you're right.

Sampong

Despite disguising his Scottish accent, Hamish has been caught on video heckling again. The whole video is worth a watch but Hamish starts getting a little excited at 4:49 in;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35D4z94x_kQ

The usual responses there then Hamish?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

LOL

Seems quite clear that ordinary people are seeing right through Farage.

Now shouting out in public that he's a "xenophobe" and full of "rubbish".

Excellent news.