'Middle class'

Carl31

londonsurrey wrote: »

But the most important factor for me is that of attitude - someone could be loud, flashy, etc, but if they don't step on people, don't think they're better than someone else just because little Kenisha goes to an expensive school, if they have decent morals, then they're people I want to keep knowing anyhow.

This was the point i was getting at, i guess i felt like i was being looked down upon over a joke, where i didnt think there was any reason to do so, but can see where it came from

lika_86

Carl31 wrote: »

This was the point i was getting at, i guess i felt like i was being looked down upon over a joke, where i didnt think there was any reason to do so, but can see where it came from

But you made the 'joke' in the first place. It wasn't made by your friend to be condescending to you, you were making an unfunny remark to your friend which he took the wrong way. Apologise and move on.

Carl31

lika_86 wrote: »

But you made the 'joke' in the first place. It wasn't made by your friend to be condescending to you, you were making an unfunny remark to your friend which he took the wrong way. Apologise and move on.

Oh its not a big deal, like i said an observation in attitude change from an old friend. I posted about it to see if others bad witnessed similar situations

londonsurrey

It depends on the joke. Some jokes are accepted within certain groups, e.g. "Ooh er, you swallowed a dictionary, then?" when someone uses a word of more than two syllables.

It could be a subtle put down to someone trying to be pretentious, or it could be a put down to someone just making use of the words out there in the big wide world.

Either way, it is a put down, and a socially acceptable way of ensuring that people don't stray too much away from the established norms of the group.


But the thing of note is that it's such an established way of behaving, that the people administering the put down don't even think that that's what they're doing.

Lagoon

I guess I'm someone that might be considered to be in the 'mixed class' you seem to think exists, and I do think that it might be becoming more common.

I grew up in poverty, so I've certainly seen that side of life. However, I studied at university and I now run my own business. With that, I do seem to have taken on more of a 'middle class' attitude, I'll admit. Yet, it's not about thinking that I'm better than I am - it's about changing priorities, and right now I can live this way because nobody is dependent on me.

Little things like business class travel, high quality foods, luxury hotels...health and comfort are my priorities now, and I think my life is better for it. Stress evaporates, and I feel more 'alive', and I guess that's the lure of it. But, these are still rare things. We don't travel often at all because we DON'T have a lot of spare money - OH and I have never been on a holiday together, because we can't afford it or find the time, so a luxury night is often as good at rejuvenating as a whole holiday at what really ends up being a fraction of the price. I do my best to help others, I don't think I'm wasteful, but having lived in a home where there wasn't enough money to eat, where I slept on the floor and where we'd sit in the dark and cold because we couldn't afford fuel, I know the impact it has on your health and wellbeing. I give myself a better lifestyle, and in turn I'm more capable of helping others.

OH is more a 'consistent working class' person. He didn't grow up in poverty like I did, but his family weren't well off. They were home owners and enjoyed good food and some of the latest items, but they certainly weren't into any kind of 'luxury'. He's the same now - likes the simple pleasures in life, and when I announced that I'd prefer luxury hotels for future trips responded that he'd be happy in the cheapest hotel available. All that said, he's the more frivolous spender. He'll see something small that he likes, and he'll buy it, and it all mounts up. I very rarely buy anything for myself, but might have gained some of those 'middle class' principles along the way!

It doesn't help that I have a BBC English accent. I moved around quite a bit as a child, never settled anywhere, lost my original (very strong Northern) accent and didn't gain another in its place. So, I've had comments about being 'posh'. They've never offended me, but OP it sounds as though your friend might be in a similar situation to me which is why your comment might have hurt. If they've chosen their priorities and you're making it sound as though they've got ideas above their station, that might be quite a hurtful 'joke'. If your 'joke' is actually rooted in truth and you think their whole attitude and personality are changing, then it might just have sounded like you were having a go.

I think if anyone ever commented that I was getting too 'middle class' and truly meant it, then it would upset me. Mostly, though, I'd be hurt that they thought I was developing an arrogant attitude. If your friend really is, and you've pointed it out, then I'd imagine that it would be the short, sharp kick he needs to reflect and change.

Tiglath

You raise an important point, Lagoon - attitude towards others. I do value kindness above a lot of other attributes and that isn't defined by one's background, lifestyle or possessions. It's a character trait.

marisco_2

I agree with you Tiglath. I really like and respect people who have good manners. It is a trait that can open so many doors in life and costs absolutely nothing except for a bit of thought and effort.

lostinrates

pigpen wrote: »

The class divide is more obvious and relevant now than it has been in a long time so just because you don't want to see it or acknowledge it doesn't mean it isn't there.. different tax brackets, punishing people for being disabled, .

Just want to point out that disabled people come in all classes, and in all tax classes.

dktreesea

Carl31 wrote: »

Fine dining, paying upwards of £50 for botttles of wine, paying thousands a month for premium childcare when they earn around average salaries that kind of thing, it reminds me a bit of the harry enfield sketch with the rich scousers being better than everyone as they have money, except the people im referencing dont, well no more than most at least


But its not so much the actual things they do, theres nothing wrong with any of that, its the attitde that comes with it

Its not a massive deal, just something i have observed

I knew a guy who, when he was on a student bursary so of very little means, ate really well. He always bought and cooked fresh food, used recipes, and ate the most delicious premium icecream which I was too stingy to buy for myself until I met him.

He never ate stuff like take aways and McDonalds, and used phrases to describe people who did like "fast food junkies" and "people dicing with death". He bought really good quality shoes (a habit I have picked up from him and never regretted), good quality second hand furniture at auctions, as in period pieces, and claimed he "wouldn't be seen dead in a cr*p hole like Ikea".

He does now have an income to match his tastes, describes himself as middle class, and does indeed, imho, spend ridiculous amounts on childcare because he shopped around until he found a nursery his children liked, - apparently the council one "didn't suit them".

Has he changed in his attitudes over time? Yes, kind of. His family aren't that well off - he grew up on a council estate. His dad was, and still is, a storeman who still rents and (in his words) moans about the bedroom tax. It's not that he says anything disparaging about the poor, or those not doing so well financially. I asked him how the recession had affected him and he said it hadn't. They still did all the things they did prior to the recession, like going abroad a couple of times a year (with young kids - rather him than me!) He recently changed his car because his old one ("vintage" 2005) was getting a bit long in the tooth, and he "just hadn't noticed it".

It's like he doesn't notice people who are worse off than him. He's still got all his uni friends, and catches up with the people he knew from home when he goes to see his family, but at the same time he doesn't do things with that latter group, iyswim.

Treevo

Carl31 wrote: »

Fine dining, paying upwards of £50 for botttles of wine, paying thousands a month for premium childcare when they earn around average salaries that kind of thing, it reminds me a bit of the harry enfield sketch with the rich scousers being better than everyone as they have money, except the people im referencing dont, well no more than most at least


But its not so much the actual things they do, theres nothing wrong with any of that, its the attitde that comes with it

Its not a massive deal, just something i have observed

So what's wrong with 'the attitude that comes with it'?