'Middle class'

Carl31

Just made an obvious joke to a friend, whom of recent years has had something of a different attitude about him, instead of noting the joke and playing a long as expected (it wasnt funny or anything just a jokey comment) i got a rather odd response, like i was someway insulting his lifestyle

I suppose what i have noted of late is many people, whom are not high earners, work like the rest of us for decent but not overly extravegant lives, taking on this 'middle class' attitude, adopting passtimes that would probably regarded previoulsy as something that the upper classes do

Theres nothing wrong for it, and in all honesty the whole class thing does not have a place in society these days, i just find it odd that more people take on this persona these days, or maybe its just people i know?

Know anyone like that?

londonsurrey

What kind of past times? The only things that currently spring to mind are applicable to a couple of centuries ago, e.g. golf and holidays on the continent.

I'm also unsure if you're referring to the upper class or middle class, and the timeframe, i.e. 50 years ago or a couple of centuries ago.

Tiglath

Maybe they mentally/financially have the freedom these days to do things that would've been seen as 'outside their class' years ago? I remember my parents being quite hung up on the middle class thing - they were the only people in their circle who took on a mortgage in the 1950s, and everyone else thought they were daft as it was the norm to rent. My parents were in no way posh and never had that much money. Although they had fairly typical Tory attitudes, they would never vote Tory because that was what posh people do. Mum's family was really really dirt poor, and her mother never liked Dad because his own parents were better off. I don't think it really matters one way or another; I work and therefore I consider myself to be working class rather than anything else, purely based on that fact.

pigpen

The class divide is more obvious and relevant now than it has been in a long time so just because you don't want to see it or acknowledge it doesn't mean it isn't there.. different tax brackets, punishing people for being disabled, restricting who can and cannot go to university are all ways of keeping the rich rich and the poor in their place and you'd have to be blind not to see it. A classless society smarts of communism which is a fabulous idea in principle but far too easily abused.

My OH is very much from a middle class family.. private schools, own business etc and mine are totally working class trade unionists left wing harbingers of doom.. his family hate me!

Anyway... maybe he thought you were having a snidey dig at his lifestyle which would be offensive or that you are jealous of his success.. it doesn't mean you are, just someone eles perception.

Carl31

londonsurrey wrote: »

What kind of past times? The only things that currently spring to mind are applicable to a century ago, e.g. golf and holidays on the continent.

Fine dining, paying upwards of £50 for botttles of wine, paying thousands a month for premium childcare when they earn around average salaries that kind of thing, it reminds me a bit of the harry enfield sketch with the rich scousers being better than everyone as they have money, except the people im referencing dont, well no more than most at least


But its not so much the actual things they do, theres nothing wrong with any of that, its the attitde that comes with it

Its not a massive deal, just something i have observed

lazer

pigpen wrote: »

The class divide is more obvious and relevant now than it has been in a long time so just because you don't want to see it or acknowledge it doesn't mean it isn't there.. different tax brackets, punishing people for being disabled, restricting who can and cannot go to university are all ways of keeping the rich rich and the poor in their place and you'd have to be blind not to see it. A classless society smarts of communism which is a fabulous idea in principle but far too easily abused.

My OH is very much from a middle class family.. private schools, own business etc and mine are totally working class trade unionists left wing harbingers of doom.. his family hate me!

Anyway... maybe he thought you were having a snidey dig at his lifestyle which would be offensive or that you are jealous of his success.. it doesn't mean you are, just someone eles perception.

Please explain the highlighted statement

As far as I am aware there is no upfront cost to university and it is all now a loan which is paid when your salary is high enough that you can (probably) afford to start repaying.

I do not agree with the really high fees, but they do not restrict people going to University - it is equally accessible to rich and poor.

lika_86

Carl31 wrote: »

Fine dining, paying upwards of £50 for botttles of wine, paying thousands a month for premium childcare when they earn around average salaries that kind of thing, it reminds me a bit of the harry enfield sketch with the rich scousers being better than everyone as they have money, except the people im referencing dont, well no more than most at least


But its not so much the actual things they do, theres nothing wrong with any of that, its the attitde that comes with it

Its not a massive deal, just something i have observed

People often have different priorities in life, I'm not sure that nice meals, good wine and child care means that they're enjoying things above their station or that they shouldn't have these things.

They might forego 4 'cheap' average meals out at somewhere like strada/wagamama etc to go out for a nice meal or go without the little costly extras (takeout coffee/magazines etc) in favour of a nice bottle of wine. You just don't know.

However, it's really none of your business how they decide to spend their money, nor is it useful to define people by class and think they should never have/want to have certain things just because of their birth/job status.

londonsurrey

Carl31 wrote: »

Fine dining, paying upwards of £50 for botttles of wine, paying thousands a month for premium childcare when they earn around average salaries that kind of thing, it reminds me a bit of the harry enfield sketch with the rich scousers being better than everyone as they have money, except the people im referencing dont, well no more than most at least


But its not so much the actual things they do, theres nothing wrong with any of that, its the attitde that comes with it

Its not a massive deal, just something i have observed

IMHO there are several issues here. The first is that of finances - what people choose to spend their money on, and whether they can actually afford it. People of all classes are capable of overspending and living on credit. Some poor people give up a lot for one massive thing that is important to them, be it an annual holiday, school fees, an annual meal at the Savoy, etc.

The second is of taste. Just IMHO, you don't become a lady/gentleman by spending thousands on fine dining. You achieve that by your actions, by being always courteous to the waitress, your housekeeper, the doorman.

In terms of taste in personal acquisitions, I am aware that I dislike the excessive bling culture, be it an overblinged chav or the overembellishment of the later Victorian era. But that's personal taste.

But the most important factor for me is that of attitude - someone could be loud, flashy, etc, but if they don't step on people, don't think they're better than someone else just because little Kenisha goes to an expensive school, if they have decent morals, then they're people I want to keep knowing anyhow.

marisco_2

My grandmother had awful 'class' hangups to the point where she let it restrict her life and made by grandads life real hard work. She could constantly be heard saying 'our type dont do that sort of thing, that is for the posh folk'.

Due to his perseverance and eventual insistance they were the first in the family to buy their own house after the war. Something that shocked everyone else who told them they were mad not to just rent. She was bought up to accept a certain level in life and not aim above it, had no aspirations at all for herself or anyone else around her.

She had fifty fits when my grandad traded in his much loved motorbike and bought a car. When my mum was dating my dad, grandmother assumed he must be awfully posh because he played golf. She tried to persuade my mum to hitch up with someone else as in her own words 'how would the two families ever get on, we are from two different worlds'. Hmmmm actually they were not, they came from the same town and had led very similar lives and had about the same standard of living. Just different interests!

Going out for a day trip with her anywhere was a drag. 'Our sort dont eat in that type of restaurant'...... never said in a quiet voice!

She was not impressed when I took a gap year and travelled. This was not the sort of thing I should be aiming for at all in her eyes. Why was I not a shop girl, hanging around for Mr Right to sweep me off my feet to a life of domestic bliss!!! When I had struggled at school she had said 'oh dont worry darling, you are a pretty little thing, one day a nice man will come along and take care of you' :eek: My dad flipped out at that one.

When I won a place at university she did not congratulate me, just looked at me with disdain and said I was letting her down. That was the only time her perspective and way of thinking ever really hurt me. I think it might just about have finished her off as six months later she died.

I was raised by my parents to feel that I could mix in all social circles, pursue any career I chose and enjoy all manner of interests and hobbies. I am raising my sons the same way. I bet my grandmother is turning in her grave!

duchy

It does seem the OP has "offended" his friend by assuming they should want the same things in life and if not the same the person who has different ways of spending their money is the one been "different" or out of step.

Frankly things like expensive childcare are not often a choice but a means to enabling employment. Most people would be delighted not to have to spend on this "luxury" and would laugh at it been catagorised along with high class dining or vintage wines.

Ladyhawk

My friends tease me about being their posh friend (all very light hearted). Personally I don't see taking on expenses that you can't afford as trying to be "middle class" - I see it as being daft and buying into the consumerist society! But then again, I genuinely don't understand buying £50 bottles of wine (unless its LP rose....:drool:) or buying branded clothes or food. I also don't understand having children and then paying someone else to bring them up.

The problem with university was setting a target of 50% of adults going to tertiary education. Pure madness! It should be for the minority who need it (rather than can afford it) and everyone else learns their skills in th real world. We need more "real world" learners.

I think we need to get over the whole class issue. Its not important where you were born, or what you do for a living... as long as you contribute to society in whatever way that you can, you're kind, relatively law abiding (I admit, occassionally I go over 70MPH on the motorway) - that's what's important.