You can cancel your Orange contract!

mattyprice4004

Just called them about this - explained it all and the guy was helpful.

They want to see the copy of their T&Cs I signed up for, so I have to go to an EE store to send it over.

DamePeggy

oopsadaisydoddle wrote: »

Have CISAS actually picked it up though? I thought it was out of their 'remit' so to speak with it being a 'business decision'. Or is that just what they told you, do you think?

[Update: Just after I wrote this post, received an email from CISAS, saying they've passed on the details of my complaint to Orange, who have 14 days to reply - so it looks like CISAS think it's in their remit.]

It was Orange who said that it was out of CISAS's remit, not CISAS themselves.
Orange had to willfully ignored the many specific references I'd made to my complaint being about the change in Ts&Cs to come to their conclusion.

It is possible to raise a dispute with CISAS without a 'deadlock letter' - so that's what I've done, using Orange's statement that they may not reply to any more emails as proof that a deadlock had been reached. In my application to CISAS I made it as plain as I could that my complaint was about the change in Ts&Cs, not the price-rise itself.

I also wrote again to Orange to make this crystal clear - but haven't had a reply from them as yet.

DamePeggy

mattyprice4004 wrote: »

Just called them about this - explained it all and the guy was helpful.

They want to see the copy of their T&Cs I signed up for, so I have to go to an EE store to send it over.

You probably know this already, but I thought I'd reiterate this for people who may not have followed the full thread...

If you signed up before November 2012, and haven't kept an original copy (assuming you were given one), the Ts&Cs on Orange's website won't be the ones you originally agreed (as they've change them). The actual ones you would have agreed to can be found on a link earlier in this thread or or at Tom Forth's website (link also in the thread above).

oopsadaisydoddle

Ooh interesting! Keep us posted!

DamePeggy

Oh and for those who think we're up against a well run company, with fiendishly clever lawyers and accountants pouring over the Ts&Cs, check out the thread about T mobile on this site.

They've got a clause that allows a price increase tied to a measure of RPI a specified period prior to the written notification of the price rise. It looks like someone at EE just used the amount they'd used for the Orange price rise (3.3%) not bothering to check what it was for the date required in their Ts&Cs. As their price rise was a few weeks later, the RPI had dropped fractionally to 3.2% - giving their customers the right to cancel!

I'm sure they'll be as slippery as they're being for us Orange contract holders- I just wish Martin and/or the media would take a bit more notice of this (Moneybox, the guardian, watchdog and Martin on fivelive haven't been interested so far) - shame as they're going to me tens of millions out of us.

moombamike

I've written three letters with no response, and made a phone call to customer services stating all the facts in a very clear way.

The manager told me that he would not cancel my contract, then started being very insulting and abusive. Telling me he would leave a note on my account saying "Do not cancel under any circumstances" for future staff, asking why I didn't understand English when he was saying he wouldn't cancel it, refusing to listen to the terms and conditions I was reading out, refusing to acknowledge anything I said at all, telling me that if I wanted to go to a small claims court then to go ahead, and generally being rude and obnoxious.

Won't be phoning them again as I don't want to be subjected to that kind of unprofessional behaviour.

I'll be going in store with printed copies of the terms and conditions, the letters I've sent, and evidence of the Central Statistical Office closure.

Have a feeling it's going to be very difficult as Orange simply seem to ignore the facts. They literally just won't listen to them.

Let me know if there is any progress with CISAS DamePeggy.

GOOD LUCK ALL

DamePeggy

moombamike wrote: »

I've written three letters with no response, and made a phone call to customer services stating all the facts in a very clear way.

The manager told me that he would not cancel my contract, then started being very insulting and abusive. Telling me he would leave a note on my account saying "Do not cancel under any circumstances" for future staff, asking why I didn't understand English when he was saying he wouldn't cancel it, refusing to listen to the terms and conditions I was reading out, refusing to acknowledge anything I said at all, telling me that if I wanted to go to a small claims court then to go ahead, and generally being rude and obnoxious.

I think that you can request a recording or transcript of your call - which would be very useful if you feel you have been abused by a member of EE staff. Not sure how to go about that though - if you used your mobile it would record what time the call was made and you can request that specifically.

As of today (25th April) I have not heard anything from CISAS regarding any response from Orange to my complaint - they have until close of business on the 26th to send their response to CISAS.

I would not be at all surprised if they used all of the time allowed before sending their reply - it's pretty clear the kind of company we are dealing with.

If they don't respond then CISAS make the judgement on my information alone.

DamePeggy

moombamike wrote: »

I'll be going in store with printed copies of the terms and conditions, the letters I've sent, and evidence of the Central Statistical Office closure.

Have a feeling it's going to be very difficult as Orange simply seem to ignore the facts. They literally just won't listen to them.

Don't forget to tell them that you have a right to cancel because they've also changed the 'detriment' clauses too (4.3 and 15 in the original Ts&Cs).

Best of luck - let us know how you get on.

Dimey

As an aside: Orange tried to charge me £7.50 cancellation fee and £2 late payment fee the month after my contract expired. I had given 2 months notice by phone and in writing that I did not want to renew my contract after expiration.
I sent my bank statement as evidence that all 12 months had been paid on time and a copy of my notice not to renew but Orange didn't listen and sent very nasty demands for payment with threats of debt collection and bad credit logging. After 16 letters I warned Orange to cease and desist or I would charge them for having to continue to respond to their spurious illegal demands. Eventually Orange stopped their threats after £10 worth of my charges (which they paid just 2 weeks ago).

powerful_Rogue

After receiving a generic response that was totally unrealted to the matter, the other half wrote them an email asking them to re-read what she had originally wrote and not to send another unrelated generic email.

Guess what Orange did?!

Thank you for your email dated 19 April 2013. I apologise for my delay in responding I have been out of the office.

I apologise if you believe that I did not address your issues however, I have spoken with our Legal Department and confirm our terms and conditions give us the right to increase our price plan charges provided the increase is no higher than RPI and we provide customers with written notice of the change. Clause 7.2.3.3 of our terms state that we will use a statistical measure of RPI' published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date' we provide our customers with written notice.

We wrote to our customers between 02 April and 08 April 2013 informing them of the changes to their price plan charge. In accordance with our terms and conditions, the relevant measure of RPI should reflect an RPI figure published on a date as close as reasonably possible to the date we provide notice.

The Office of National Statistics published its official rate of RPI for the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2013. The official measure of RPI for this period is 3.3%. This is in line with the 3.3% price increase we notified customers of in April to take effect from 10th May.

This means that customers wishing to end their contract with us, in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3, will not have the right to leave without providing us with 30 days notice or paying the cancellation charge that may apply.

Whilst I appreciate this may not be the response you were hoping for, I trust I have explained my reasons behind my decision.

Kind Regards

Thats right! They sent what appears to be another generic email!

1) Again not addressing any of the points related to changing the terms and conditions without notifying the customers.
2) Quoting the incorrect terms and conditions
3) Even better, quoting T-Mobiles terms and conditions! 7.2.3.3 is a T-Mobile clause, not an Orange one.

Another email sent off again asking for a non generic reply and also asking for a deadlock letter.

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