You can cancel your Orange contract!

RandomCurve

If you fight this one on the basis that EE have changed the T&Cs I think you'll find EEs defence will be that they have not changed them - isn't that what happened to you DP?

I still think it is best to go on the basis that RPI and ONS are not in your contract, and claiming compensation (£50-£100?) for EE breaching it's duty of care by quoting the wrong T&Cs when responding to your queries. May be worth waiting for the outcome of my claim - due around 22nd, but by following this approach you may not win the right to cancel, but may still get the funds from EE (compensation) to cover the increase.

DamePeggy

RandomCurve wrote: »

If you fight this one on the basis that EE have changed the T&Cs I think you'll find EEs defence will be that they have not changed them - isn't that what happened to you DP?

I

That is what happened to me as my CISAS adjudicator completely ignored the fact that I'd been read the terms over the phone on a number of occassions - even though I pointed out that EE had never disputed this.

I think if you've got a tweet or any other kind of electronic documentation that should be enough, along with your account of the phone calls to satisfy the requirements of the contract (#108).

I'd definitely ask for the duty of care compensation too, but I can't see why you wouldn't want to try the contract change - which would require demanding the cancellation within a month of receiving the electronic confirmation.

ryan92

Received a letter from the executive office today ;

I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent Price increase. As a company we are committed to offering the best value of service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation.

We are obliged , as are all UK operators, to abide by condition 9.6 of the Ofcom/EU Framework for EU regulations. This conditions sets out what we must do if a change is of material detriment to a customer, which is to provide 30 days notice and allow a customer to end their agreement free of charge. When the changes are not of material detriment the customer does not have the right to end their agreement.

In this instance the increase of 3.3% is considered to be reasonable as it is in line with the RPI and is not of material detriment to our customers. As such we have provided our customers with 30 days notice (as stated in our Terms and Conditions) but there is no obligation for the company to end their agreement without charge. Our Legal Team has confirmed clause 4.3.1 is a valid and enforaceable clause within the agreement and gives Orange the right to increase charges to you the customer.

Please be assured our customers views are important to us and your comments are fully acknowledged.

DamePeggy

ryan92 wrote: »

Received a letter from the executive office today...

That's precisely the reply that i received. The term 'material detriment' didn't appear anywhere in the V14 terms - they're just trying to muddy the waters.

Ask them to provide you with the full wording of the clausses in question 4.3. and 4.3.1. as you would like to avoid any confusion on this matter (which really is a perfectly reasonable request).

A reasonable company would happily send you this, but I'd expect that you'd then get a response saying they've replied enough / go away. Which would at least be more evidence for action outside a duty of care, and would open your way to the CISAS complaint.

Oli.s

Has anyone actually managed to exit their agreement without penalty using these clauses?

DamePeggy

Oli.s wrote: »

Has anyone actually managed to exit their agreemehttp://static3.moneysavingexpert.com/images/forum_style_2/editor/insertunorderedlist.gifnt without penalty using these clauses?

Not without taking Orange to the small claims court (EE are yet to contest any of the cases taken there - see https://www.tomforth.co.uk/orange). The posters on this thread have been attempting to take the matter through CISAS - which doesn't involve any upfront cost, but is pretty tortuous I'm afraid.

I'll be going to the SCC as soon as I've had a response from CISAS who seem to have botched their procedures when they rejected my claim.

ryan92

Orange/EE/T-Mobile whatever you want to call them clearly care for their customers. I responded to their previous letter for clarification on the points 4.3 and 4.3.1 and received the following email today ;

Thank you for your email dated 9 August 2013.

I am sorry you remain unhappy with the recent Price Increase. As a company we are committed to offering the best value for service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI),which is a measure of inflation

Orange believe the changes are not of material detriment so I am sorry to advise you do not have the right to end your agreement.

I trust I have clarified our final position in this matter. I regret I am unable to offer any further assistance with this matter therefore, no further correspondence will be entered into.


Yours sincerely



Blanca Wallace
Executive Office,EE



Therefore, they are not willing to clarify which Terms I am on whatsoever so they are really trying to confuse me and keep me in the dark. Duty of Care? To quote Jim Royle.... my a£!e

powerful_Rogue

ryan92 wrote: »

Orange/EE/T-Mobile whatever you want to call them clearly care for their customers. I responded to their previous letter for clarification on the points 4.3 and 4.3.1 and received the following email today ;

Thank you for your email dated 9 August 2013.

I am sorry you remain unhappy with the recent Price Increase. As a company we are committed to offering the best value for service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI),which is a measure of inflation

Orange believe the changes are not of material detriment so I am sorry to advise you do not have the right to end your agreement.

I trust I have clarified our final position in this matter. I regret I am unable to offer any further assistance with this matter therefore, no further correspondence will be entered into.


Yours sincerely



Blanca Wallace
Executive Office,EE



Therefore, they are not willing to clarify which Terms I am on whatsoever so they are really trying to confuse me and keep me in the dark. Duty of Care? To quote Jim Royle.... my a£!e

Dosent surprise me at all. They refused to tell my partner what terms applied to her contract over the phone, instead repeating they will post them out. 2 months later and were still waiting, despite chasing them up numerous times.

Such a shabby company.

DamePeggy

ryan92 wrote: »

Therefore, they are not willing to clarify which Terms I am on whatsoever so they are really trying to confuse me and keep me in the dark. Duty of Care? To quote Jim Royle.... my a£!e

It doesn’t surprise me either.

I'd probably give it a go with CISAS now that they’ve broken off communication. I am assuming that you have emailed EE to tell them that you wish to cancel as they’ve changed your Ts&Cs (if not do this soon)...

I’d put it something like this:

• EE read you terms that didn't match yours.
• They confirmed that the new terms were applicable to you with the tweet – which pointed you to the new terms (which triggers the clauses in the contract – see post #108). If they had sent this in an email it would have been sufficent, a tweet should be no different – especially as their customer service email isn’t working and they push people to the @OrangeHelpers feed.
• The Ts&Cs matter as they give EE the right to choose from a wider range of stats for future price rises and introduce material detriment, which is harder for you to prove.
• Despite a direct request EE have failed to clarify which terms apply to you and have used concepts that only appear in the new terms in correspondence with you.
• You can put EE ‘to strict proof’ that this evidence (especially the tweet) is NOT sufficient to consider that your Ts&Cs have changed. If they cannot, you have every right to cancel. In my case EE ‘put me to strict proof’ that my Ts&Cs had changed, and I had no electroic/written evidence that they had. I think your case can reasonably be reversed – make them say why the tweet, accompanied by the phone calls etc. does not indicate that they have informed you of a change.

Even if CISAS accept their case, then you can still expect some compensation for breach of duty of care. They have had every opportunity to tell you the terms you are on, have hidden the old terms from view, and have refused to answer a perfectly reasonable request for clarification.

DamePeggy

I had a reply from CISAS this morning to my complaint that their adjudicator had made his decision on the basis of a defence from EE that didn't appear in the documents I received. This was despite me pointing out that some text was missing and asking them to send it to me for comment if it held anything important - which it most definitely did (see #132 above).

Predictably they said that they had noted my comments, but their decision was final and not open to any review.

So it's off to the SCC for me.