You can cancel your Orange contract!

ryan92

Ah sorry, misunderstood!
I wasn't aware they had changed them at all :O. Gahhh I should be more tuned into all this !

neneromanova

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Id have another read through. This is about the price rise, its about changing the terms and conditions.

If that's the case, are we able to try to cancel the contract? As I read you can't claim after the price rise happens... Mine was set up in September 2012 so I'm assuming I have the old t&c's.

powerful_Rogue

neneromanova wrote: »

If that's the case, are we able to try to cancel the contract? As I read you can't claim after the price rise happens... Mine was set up in September 2012 so I'm assuming I have the old t&c's.

Your either claiming that Orange have changed the terms and conditions without telling you, OR that they have increased your price plan using a figure thats not supplied by anyone listed in your contract.

Nothing to do with the actual price rise if you get me!

ryan92

Should I contact Orange and get them to confirm to me which set of terms I am on? If they tell me I am on a different set from the ones I initially signed, I could then get the ball rolling?

powerful_Rogue

ryan92 wrote: »

Should I contact Orange and get them to confirm to me which set of terms I am on? If they tell me I am on a different set from the ones I initially signed, I could then get the ball rolling?

I will be a long drawn out process and will involve taking the matter to CISAS in 8 weeks. Have a good read of this thread as you will need to gather as much evidence as possible.

DamePeggy

ryan92 wrote: »

Should I contact Orange and get them to confirm to me which set of terms I am on? If they tell me I am on a different set from the ones I initially signed, I could then get the ball rolling?

I'd second what PowerfulRogue says - you need to gather as much evidence as possibleas that Orange have been using the new terms in their dealings with you.

If you call the company and they read you the updated terms make a record of the time and date of the call. Try Orange helpers and their (possibly even record it if your phone allows that with an app). If you are a user of either, then ask @OrangeHelpers on twitter and try Orange's facebook page.

When you have been told the new terms, email executive.office@ee.co.uk and inform them that you consider this to be notice that they have changed your Ts&Cs and you wish to cancel and then see how they respond.

It will take time, but it's worth a punt.

DamePeggy

I've received Orange's defence to my CISAS complaint - which was solely on the basis of the non existent government agency and publication. .

They've made three defences of note:


Regarding my specific argument that neither the government office or specific publication exist, they offer the following defence – which I've copied in full as it just appears to end halfway through a sentence (typically sloppy):

“The Respondent admits that the Central Statistical Office (‘the CSO’) is no longer in existence. “The CSO has merged with the Office of Population Censuses and Surveys to form the current Office of National Statistics (‘ONS’). The Respondent submits that RPI figures continue to be published, and have at all relevant times been published, on a month by month basis by
Government. The only change which has occurred is the name of the Governmental Department from which the monthly RPI figure has been released. The Respondent denies that a change in the name of the Governmental body from which published RPI data is issued invalidates or
otherwise affects the enforceability of Clause 4.3.1 of the Agreement. The Respondent submits that reference in Clause 4.3.1 to the CSO is no more than a reference to the Governmental body authorised to issue monthly RPI data. It is averred that on the proper construction of Clause 4.3.1 a change in the name”

Their statement that the only change that has occurred is the name of the government department is simply, factually incorrect – it completely ignores the specific reference to the monthly digest of statistics. I made it very clear in my complaint that the Ts&Cs directly reference this document which has not existed during the term of my contract.


They also refer only to RPI and Retail Price Index in their defence – neither of which appeared in the Ts&Cs.




They also argue that this complaint regards a complicated aspect of contract law:


" Further the dispute, as pleaded, necessitates the consideration of the legal interpretation of lauses contained within the Service Agreement (“the Agreement”) entered into between the Claimant and Respondent, applied as against facts, to ascertain whether a legal right of termination exists. The
Respondent submits that such issues of legal interpretation and consideration requires evaluation and application of areas of law concerning contractual interpretation which are by their verynature complex and complicated."


I'm not completely sure where to start with this one as it could conceivably be used to exclude any complaint anyone made about their contracts. I will be arguing that this is not a complicated point of law – a clause that unequivocally references a specific document surely has to rely on that document actually existing. Had the issue just been the CSO changing to the ONS then it might have been more complicated, but not when a specific document is mentioned.


I note that in the Tmobile thread, people have been arguing on the basis of OFT guidelines that any ambiguity should be considered in favour of the customer – would this be true of a clause that isn't ambbiguous in the slightest? Are there any other, more relevant points I could raise?




Finally, they're trotting out the argument that the price-rise was a business decision and therefore outside CISAS remit. I think the fact that CISAS are dealing with a load of Tmobile cases show this doesn't hold water.

powerful_Rogue

Hi DamePeggy,

Thats very interesting to read. Seems like the usual EE stance of talking rubbish though!

We still havent been able to lodge out CISAS claim yet as waiting for the final piece of evidence, which is turning out to be a struggle to get!

4th July - Phoned up to get a copy of T&C's. Advised they would arrive within 10 days. - Nothing received.

16th July - Phoned upto question why nothing has been received - Advised it must have been lost in the post. Asked to confirm address and promised we would receive a copy by the 19th July.

22nd July - Still nothing received. Spoke with "Customer Services" (If you can really call it that) and was interrogated as to why I hadnt received them! Man on phone kept on saying they had been sent out. Asked to speak to Manager and was put through to a chap called Ricky. He said that my first request was still being processed and would be another 2 days before they would be sent out! Asked him why everyone has been lying so far but he couldn't quite understand they question. He's promised he would send them via email and they would be receiving no later then 1830hrs tonight. Will wait and see!

I suppose its soemthing extra to add to the CISAS claim!

ryan92

Just received a response from Orange helpers who've directed me to a link to the October 2012 terms confirming that is the set i'm on. I joined February 2012 so was never told about the change. Seems I can start gathering evidence?

DamePeggy

ryan92 wrote: »

Just received a response from Orange helpers who've directed me to a link to the October 2012 terms confirming that is the set i'm on. I joined February 2012 so was never told about the change. Seems I can start gathering evidence?

You've got to make a judgement as to whether or not sending you that link is sufficient evidence already. I'd be inclined to think that it was, but try to get them to confirm it anway.

The relevant clause in the Ts&Cs is 16. I'd think that being sent a link is sufficient for part C. I'm not sure how much extra proof you'd need really.


“16.1 We update our Customer Communication from time to time. Information on various topics is

mailed to Customers with their monthly billing statements and/or made available to

Customers with their e-bill on Your Account and is available on request from us. You are

asked to read your Customer Communications and to keep those which are mailed to you

until they are superseded. We regard you as having been given any information if it is either:

a) included in a mailing addressed to you,

b) by voicemail, email, text or other form ofelectronic message sent by us to your Device,

c) communicated directly by any means (including any information made available to Customers with their e-bills). “

CISAS rejected my claim as there was no written evidence in my claim, just my assertion (which Orange never denied) that they'd read the new terms out to me (repeatedly).