German kitchens

Gregd_2

First post of probably many so please go easy on me.

We have recently moved house and are undertaking a complete renovation including a 2 storey extension to include a new kitchen and 2 bedrooms and shower room upstairs (we are extending over the existing garage).

We are still awaiting planning consent but are already in the process of finalising our preferred kitchen supplier/installer, we have whittled this down to 3 local independents at the moment with each one supplying one of the following; bauformat, hacker, leicht. I am looking for educated opinions on the 3 in terms of quality and price. We are still finalising designs so don't know exact costings yet but an idea of which is likely to be more expensive would be good too.

Just to give you an idea the kitchen is going to be approx 7m x 6m with an island and our budget is up to 20k including appliances.

ryder72

Hi Gregd - you wont regret buying a German kitchen. They are all built to much higher standards than that you would get from anywhere else.

Within German kitchens, Hacker and Bauformat that you have looked at both entry level kitchens and should be very similar in specification, quality and pricing too. Leicht would be dearer but then it is a high specification kitchen as well, as I am sure you would have found out.

I must admit I am a retailer and we deal with Leicht so I have a soft corner for them but its equally true that they really a good notch above the rest and also at very competitive price point.

Gregd_2

ryder72 wrote: »

Hi Gregd - you wont regret buying a German kitchen. They are all built to much higher standards than that you would get from anywhere else.

Within German kitchens, Hacker and Bauformat that you have looked at both entry level kitchens and should be very similar in specification, quality and pricing too. Leicht would be dearer but then it is a high specification kitchen as well, as I am sure you would have found out.

I must admit I am a retailer and we deal with Leicht so I have a soft corner for them but its equally true that they really a good notch above the rest and also at very competitive price point.

That's very interesting, at the moment the Leicht seems like it's coing to be the cheapest.

leveller2911

ryder72 wrote: »

Hi Gregd - you wont regret buying a German kitchen. They are all built to much higher standards than that you would get from anywhere else.


I recently visited a client who had a Poggenpohl kitchen and I wasn't impressed. The carcases,doors,hinges and runners were no better than Howdens,Magnet etc.

What spec do you consider "much higher standard" (carcase,hinges,drawer runners etc).

I'm a complete novice with German kitchens but as I say I didn't think much of Poggenpohl at all.
The ONLY product that looked quality was the worktops,the edge detail looked similar to ply but layers of brushed aluminium between timber (very nice) I will try and find out the model.

cyclonebri1

ryder72 wrote: »

Hi Gregd - you wont regret buying a German kitchen. They are all built to much higher standards than that you would get from anywhere else.

Within German kitchens, Hacker and Bauformat that you have looked at both entry level kitchens and should be very similar in specification, quality and pricing too. Leicht would be dearer but then it is a high specification kitchen as well, as I am sure you would have found out.

I must admit I am a retailer and we deal with Leicht so I have a soft corner for them but its equally true that they really a good notch above the rest and also at very competitive price point.

Not a prod at German kitchens, just all kitchens

And that really does say it all, just what do you get for the extra £££££'s?

This isn't a prod at German kitchens, it's simply the fact about them all, spit and sawdust, or if you want the makers take "granulated and reconstituted timbers from a sustainable forest site, mixed with the most technically advanced polymers available.

It's still chippings mixed with glue, and probably has horse in it to boot.

If our Germanic friends use something superior then I owe them an apology.

I really do wonder what we are being sold, and if anyone mentions bespoke, I may just fall off my perch, standard sizes with nothing more than an "adjusted" infill section, bah humbug.:D:D:D

(reasonably serious but I do await the comments););)

Leif

Hopefully one of the kitchen experts will answer, but when I asked what made some kitchens better, I was told that it is the thickness of the laminates, and the method of application i.e. under pressure from a press rather than being ironed on by a fitter. If you look at office furniture, that is often chipboard, but the laminates are thick and completely flat, so more durable. Most UK kitchens I have seen have thin edge laminates, and I have seen them peeling off after a few years. So yes, the substrate is cheap chipboard, but even then there are grades of chipboard, such as moisture resistant. Oddly enough, when I was shown a sample of a panel for my kitchen, it had thick edge laminates. But the actual kitchen has thin edge laminates. Eh?

Apparently our lovable sausage and pickled cabbage munching neighbours often take the kitchen with them when they move, which suggests that the construction is tougher.

ryder72

Look - I am not going to dignify these comments with answers. Pretty must everything that has to be said about German kitchens has already been said - look it up.

If anyone really wants to find out, they're welcome to visit my studio by prior appointment and I will show them exactly what I mean. I'll also make you an excellent coffee. Just please bring a British made kitchen unit from any mainstream manufacturer with you to make the comparisons easier.

cddc

Most would agree that, in general, the quality and construction of most German carcasses is better that than anything made in the UK, the question is is it worth the price premium?

A good quality UK made flatpack (or rigid) should last 15-20 years plus if well fitted, by which time the syle and look of the kitchen is likely to have dated however well made the product, and the frontals are likely to be damaged or stained by this stage anyway.

Yes the rigidity and strength of the units is better, the options for storage solutions are more varied and interesting. But there is a price to pay for all of this. You pay your money and make your choice.

leveller2911

cddc wrote: »

Most would agree that, in general, the quality and construction of most German carcasses is better that than anything made in the UK, the question is is it worth the price premium?


AIUI Even the German kitchens that are "built to a much higher standard" are constructed from MFC (probably Egger boards) so for example the material costs of a 600mm wide unit including good quality hinges (Grass tiomos, or Blum) or fully extending soft close drawer runners(Blumotion) etc would still cost less than £50-00 to me and I don't have the buying power of these mass produced German kitchens.MFC is a cheap alternative and yet the German kitchens are still constructed from a "not so great quality" material.


A good quality UK made flatpack (or rigid) should last 15-20 years plus if well fitted, by which time the syle and look of the kitchen is likely to have dated however well made the product, and the frontals are likely to be damaged or stained by this stage anyway.

No difference there from a German kitchen then.

Yes the rigidity and strength of the units is better, the options for storage solutions are more varied and interesting. But there is a price to pay for all of this. You pay your money and make your choice.

As you say storage solutions cost a premium but people can source many of these themselves from companies like Hafele and suppliers of Blum.


My personal view is there has been some very clever marketing of German kitchens.;)

SailorSam

Leif wrote: »

Apparently our lovable sausage and pickled cabbage munching neighbours often take the kitchen with them when they move, which suggests that the construction is tougher.

If they were to take the kitchen with them, things could only get better ......... you could say the 'wurst' is behind you.

Leif

SailorSam wrote: »

If they were to take the kitchen with them, things could only get better ......... you could say the 'wurst' is behind you.

Either that was funny, or I have drunk too much.