EON standing charge but no supply to property

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi annoyedate.on

Must admit, not quite sure what's going on here. If I might speculate a little.

It sounds as though the gas supply is capped but the meter is still in place at the property. If this is the case, we cannot withdraw from the site.

Where we remain the nominated supplier, the meter will still be our responsibility even though no gas is being used. This responsibility involves costs.

Previously, we used a two tier charging structure where the first portion of kWh used were charged at a higher rate. This first tier (primary) charge covered the metering costs.

On 18 January 2013, we replaced primary charges with a daily standing charge.

Before this, customers not using gas weren't paying any primary charges. The new standing charges do mean, though, these customers will now see a charge.

We sent letters to all customers affected by this change to let them know what we were doing.

There's a couple of ways round this. You can either switch to a supplier who has No Standing Charge tariffs (they'll take over responsibility for the meter); or, have the meter removed. I posted more info on the implications of the second option above (post 34 may help).

On the bill received yesterday, what period do the standing charges cover?

If it's from 18 January 13 onwards, then I suspect it's as I describe above. If not, we're into a completely different ball game.

As I say, I'm speculating rather a lot here so apologies if I'm completely wide of the mark.

Malc

Nada666

If your tenants chose to sign up with Eon and chose to sign up the gas supply then, yes, you are liable for the standing charges. As a landlord it is part of your JOB to manage the property during vacant periods. You do not sit just twiddling your thumbs waiting for rent cheques to appear in your bank account - you do occasionally have to do things to earn this money.

If you do not want to pay charges for a gas supply then pay to have the supply removed.

annoyedate.on

Nada666 wrote: »

If your tenants chose to sign up with Eon and chose to sign up the gas supply then, yes, you are liable for the standing charges. As a landlord it is part of your JOB to manage the property during vacant periods. You do not sit just twiddling your thumbs waiting for rent cheques to appear in your bank account - you do occasionally have to do things to earn this money.

If you do not want to pay charges for a gas supply then pay to have the supply removed.

Oh, really! You've assumed far more than you might ever know. There was no vacant period. The tenant vacated and gave (incorrect) details to E.ON.

You speak of matters of which you have absolutely no knowledge.

Perhaps, if I told you, that I have just spent £600 replacing the white goods in the house. Perhaps if I went further and told you that I spent £4500 installing a new bathroom suite and heating system two years ago. I'd say I've been earning my money and have very happy tenants. The fact I am having the trauma of dealing with E.ON and not my tenants might even suggest that I am not passing that cost/hassle onto my tenants as I, myself, am "earning my money".

You prawn. Put your head back into the bucket of sand from which you initially extracted it and have a good rest of the day.

annoyedate.on

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Hi annoyedate.on

Must admit, not quite sure what's going on here. If I might speculate a little.

It sounds as though the gas supply is capped but the meter is still in place at the property. If this is the case, we cannot withdraw from the site.

Where we remain the nominated supplier, the meter will still be our responsibility even though no gas is being used. This responsibility involves costs.

Previously, we used a two tier charging structure where the first portion of kWh used were charged at a higher rate. This first tier (primary) charge covered the metering costs.

On 18 January 2013, we replaced primary charges with a daily standing charge.

Before this, customers not using gas weren't paying any primary charges. The new standing charges do mean, though, these customers will now see a charge.

We sent letters to all customers affected by this change to let them know what we were doing.

There's a couple of ways round this. You can either switch to a supplier who has No Standing Charge tariffs (they'll take over responsibility for the meter); or, have the meter removed. I posted more info on the implications of the second option above (post 34 may help).

On the bill received yesterday, what period do the standing charges cover?

If it's from 18 January 13 onwards, then I suspect it's as I describe above. If not, we're into a completely different ball game.

As I say, I'm speculating rather a lot here so apologies if I'm completely wide of the mark.

Malc

Malc

I appreciate your response and understand what you say (although I do struggle to see what costs are associated with your apparent responsibility for the meter. For example, it is no serviced or maintained).

However, the fact of the matter remains thus: there is no contract of supply as between E.ON and my wife.

The fact that the previous tenant passed on my wife's details to E.ON does not formulate a contract. The first we (my wife) knew of the standing charges was yesterday when she received a bill. No letter has ever been sent to (at least recieved by) my wife concerning any supply nor the change in any tariff to standing charges.

If it had been, then arrangements would have been made to avoid any charges.

As far as my wife is concerned, there has been no gas supply or charges connected with any gas supply since 2004 when she first purchased the property.

I don't know how private messaging works on here but if you are willing to assist us further in dealing with the current charges then I would gladly provide you with the relevant information and details.

Many thanks

POPPYOSCAR

I am also at a loss to understand how Eon can charge someone when they did not have a contract with that person.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi annoyedate.on

Just thought I'd explain a little more about what the standing charge covers.

The standing charge is a fixed amount to cover the costs of the connection. This is for things like meter reading, maintenance and certain rental charges where the meter belongs to another operator. It also covers the cost of keeping you connected to the network.

These network costs relate to maintaining the infrastructure. For instance, the upkeep of the pipe work which transports the gas.

We also have a duty of care to make sure everything is safe.

Although I appreciate you've no call to use gas at the moment, if I understand the situation from your posts, it looks as though the facility is still there to re-connect if necessary. As such, the costs outlined above still apply and are now passed on via the standing charge.

We did write to customers when this change was brought in although, if the letter was sent to the tenant, this may explain why your wife hasn't seen it.

In rented properties, when a tenant moves out, responsibility for the energy supply automatically transfers to the owner unless another tenant takes over immediately. This is under the terms of a deemed contract.

Deemed contracts apply where we supply a site with energy but a contract hasn't yet been agreed. It takes away the need to disconnect power supplies each time responsibility changes.

As a company rep, MSE don't allow us to use the PM facility. However, if you drop an email to the address in my Profile, I'll be happy to take a look.

Malc

molerat

Two sides to the argument here.

The tenant, or owner if unoccupied, is liable for energy used under a deemed contract but if the property whilst the responsibility of the owner has not consumed any energy has a deemed contract been entered into. Interesting article here http://www.utilityweek.co.uk/news/news_story.asp?id=183385&title=The+ins+and+outs+of+%27deemed%27+contracts

annoyedate.on

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Hi annoyedate.on

Just thought I'd explain a little more about what the standing charge covers.

The standing charge is a fixed amount to cover the costs of the connection. This is for things like meter reading, maintenance and certain rental charges where the meter belongs to another operator. It also covers the cost of keeping you connected to the network.

These network costs relate to maintaining the infrastructure. For instance, the upkeep of the pipe work which transports the gas.

We also have a duty of care to make sure everything is safe.

Although I appreciate you've no call to use gas at the moment, if I understand the situation from your posts, it looks as though the facility is still there to re-connect if necessary. As such, the costs outlined above still apply and are now passed on via the standing charge.

We did write to customers when this change was brought in although, if the letter was sent to the tenant, this may explain why your wife hasn't seen it.

In rented properties, when a tenant moves out, responsibility for the energy supply automatically transfers to the owner unless another tenant takes over immediately. This is under the terms of a deemed contract.

Deemed contracts apply where we supply a site with energy but a contract hasn't yet been agreed. It takes away the need to disconnect power supplies each time responsibility changes.

As a company rep, MSE don't allow us to use the PM facility. However, if you drop an email to the address in my Profile, I'll be happy to take a look.

Malc

Hi Malc

Thanks. My understanding of the position concerning 'deemed contracts' is as per ofgem's last written statement: ofgem.gov.uk/Markets/RetMkts/Compet/Documents1/Statement%20on%20Deemed%20Contracts.pdf

Has the position changed since this statement was issued?

To re-confirm, no gas has ever been consumed.

I will forward all details of our particular case to your direct email address tomorrow.

Thanks for your offer of assistance.

Regards

molerat

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Markets/RetMkts/Compet/Documents1/Statement%20on%20Deemed%20Contracts.pdf

As stated in the link OFGEM think it is a matter for the courts to decide. Typical that the regulator cannot state what the regulations actually mean.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi annoyedate.on

Sorry, not around yesterday but will look out for your email.

Thanks.

Malc