MSE News: Orange and T-Mobile customers face yet more price hikes

diamonds

simax wrote: »

It does not breach as your £7.50 discount is a discretionary benefit. Only base line rental cost would be looked at by OFCOM etc.

You're wasting your time.

A court would not discount it like telcos best friend though...

MissSunshine

I also got the letter about the price increase.

Just got off the phone to Orange and after politely explaining that I wasn't happy with the 2nd increase during my contract term I've now got a reduction of £0.50 per month instead of the £1.18 RPI increase with increased minutes & data without any contract extension.

Does seem an around the houses way to do things, but I guess not everyone will phone up.

DamePeggy

I posted this to a new thread, but then saw this one, so I'll copy it here too as I think it's pertinent...


Sorry for the long post as this is a little involved, but I think there might be something fishy going on with the way Orange is handling it’s recently announced in-contract price-hikes.



Like a lot of Orange mobile phone customers, I have been very annoyed by their decision to raise their contract charges for customers in the middle of my contract. Having just been stung by Virgin Broadband in a similar way I decided to call Orange to tell them that I wanted to cancel my contract (Virgin had given us the option to cancel without penalty as they were raising the price).



I wasn’t massively surprised to find that Orange refused to cancel my contract without a fee – stating their rights to do so with reference to their Terms and Conditions.

A bit of a Googling around found that some people had been able to cancel their contracts with Orange when they tried this stunt previously as Orange’s escape clause in their Ts&Cs (4.3.1) stated that they could increase

“the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; "

Which seems clear enough, but the trouble for Orange was that the Central Statistical Office was closed in 1996. Consequently a number of people had managed to cancel their contracts by taking Orange to the small claims court as they could not reasonably be expected to have their payments altered on the basis of the output of a non-existent government agency.



So I went to the Orange website to confirm precisely what Terms and Conditions I’d signed up for and found that they’ve got two sets of Ts&Cs in their current Pay Monthly list – one for customers who signed up between February 2011 and 31st October 2012 (which includes me) and one for customers who signed up afterwards.

Both of these documents have the same clause 4.3.1. as follows:



“4.3.1 we give you written notice to increase the Charges (as a percentage) by an amount

equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices or

any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body

authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time , and published on a date

as close as reasonably possi ble before the date on which we send you written notice;”



Which now looks like it gets Orange off the hook as at it’s very likely that such a government agency will exist at the moment.

Strangely, however, despite supposedly being for customers signing up at different times, both documents have the same version number shown in the footers (Version 15) and are both dated October 2012 – did Orange know that the Ts&Cs they were producing in February 2011 were going to expire in October 2012? Equally strange, is the fact that the file properties for the PDF file for the pre-October 2012 Ts&Cs show that the document was produced in February 2013.



There are currently no links to the February 2011 to October 2012 Ts&Cs on Orange’s site – but I now have a copy dated from from February 2011 – which includes the original clause referring to the non-existant government agency.



I phoned Orange to tell them that there appeared to be something wrong with their linked Ts&Cs on their website, but the woman with whom I spoke did not seem to be interested in the problem and could not tell me when the clauses had been changed or why I had no record of being informed that my Terms and Conditions had changed. I asked that she provide me with evidence that they had done so, but she just said that I would have been informed, but would not specify how or when.



I further told her that it appears that the links on their site look like they link to two different versions of the same document and that this should be looked into urgently to make sure that people are not being misled.

It seems to me that anyone who signed up to Orange before October 2012 could well have a case against Orange if their Ts&Cs were changed without being informed.



Does anyone have any comments about this?



Thanks to Tom for highlighting how people had success previously. If companies are going to rely on Terms and Conditions to hike prices in contracts (against Offcom guidelines) then they’d better make sure that the Ts&Cs are correct.

Lifes_Grand_Plan

DamePeggy wrote: »

I posted this to a new thread, but then saw this one, so I'll copy it here too as I think it's pertinent...


Sorry for the long post as this is a little involved, but I think there might be something fishy going on with the way Orange is handling it’s recently announced in-contract price-hikes.



Like a lot of Orange mobile phone customers, I have been very annoyed by their decision to raise their contract charges for customers in the middle of my contract. Having just been stung by Virgin Broadband in a similar way I decided to call Orange to tell them that I wanted to cancel my contract (Virgin had given us the option to cancel without penalty as they were raising the price).



I wasn’t massively surprised to find that Orange refused to cancel my contract without a fee – stating their rights to do so with reference to their Terms and Conditions.

A bit of a Googling around found that some people had been able to cancel their contracts with Orange when they tried this stunt previously as Orange’s escape clause in their Ts&Cs (4.3.1) stated that they could increase

“the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; "

Which seems clear enough, but the trouble for Orange was that the Central Statistical Office was closed in 1996. Consequently a number of people had managed to cancel their contracts by taking Orange to the small claims court as they could not reasonably be expected to have their payments altered on the basis of the output of a non-existent government agency.



So I went to the Orange website to confirm precisely what Terms and Conditions I’d signed up for and found that they’ve got two sets of Ts&Cs in their current Pay Monthly list – one for customers who signed up between February 2011 and 31st October 2012 (which includes me) and one for customers who signed up afterwards.

Both of these documents have the same clause 4.3.1. as follows:



“4.3.1 we give you written notice to increase the Charges (as a percentage) by an amount

equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices or

any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body

authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time , and published on a date

as close as reasonably possi ble before the date on which we send you written notice;”



Which now looks like it gets Orange off the hook as at it’s very likely that such a government agency will exist at the moment.

Strangely, however, despite supposedly being for customers signing up at different times, both documents have the same version number shown in the footers (Version 15) and are both dated October 2012 – did Orange know that the Ts&Cs they were producing in February 2011 were going to expire in October 2012? Equally strange, is the fact that the file properties for the PDF file for the pre-October 2012 Ts&Cs show that the document was produced in February 2013.



There are currently no links to the February 2011 to October 2012 Ts&Cs on Orange’s site – but I now have a copy dated from from February 2011 – which includes the original clause referring to the non-existant government agency.



I phoned Orange to tell them that there appeared to be something wrong with their linked Ts&Cs on their website, but the woman with whom I spoke did not seem to be interested in the problem and could not tell me when the clauses had been changed or why I had no record of being informed that my Terms and Conditions had changed. I asked that she provide me with evidence that they had done so, but she just said that I would have been informed, but would not specify how or when.



I further told her that it appears that the links on their site look like they link to two different versions of the same document and that this should be looked into urgently to make sure that people are not being misled.

It seems to me that anyone who signed up to Orange before October 2012 could well have a case against Orange if their Ts&Cs were changed without being informed.



Does anyone have any comments about this?



Thanks to Tom for highlighting how people had success previously. If companies are going to rely on Terms and Conditions to hike prices in contracts (against Offcom guidelines) then they’d better make sure that the Ts&Cs are correct.

Not much to add mate except to say:

1. Great detective work.
2. Keep it up (if you have time and the inclination)
3. Please keep us informed.

Hopefully someone else can assist as this might be a great way for a lot of people to get out of their contracts.

gwapenut

Isn't it a trading standards matter if they are falsifying the contracts they claim people have signed up to?

DamePeggy

It could well be a Trading Standards matter - I'm not expert enough to say either way. I thought that I ought to attempt to let Orange account for themselves first before taking it further.

So I sent an email to their customer services, as advised yesterday by one of their phone staff. I asked for some clarification on when the Ts&Cs changed, why the two documents are dated as they are and when and how was I informed as the assure me that I have been.

I received this reply:

"Please accept our apologies, we are in the process of improving our e-mail service, and cannot deal with your e-mail enquiry at this time."


Which was followed by advice to call the people I've been speaking to already - who clearly don't know anything about this (rather timely on Orange's behalf) email issue.

So I've written a letter to them today and will be continuing with my process of taking them to the small claims court while I wait for their reply.

DAM

I just got off the phone with Orange, tried everything but they wouldn't budge - ended up quoting me £390 to cancel my contracts early. I've been with them for over 10 years and have two pay monthly phones with them

Definitely moving to a different provider when the contracts are up later this year, (even if they are "all the same"). Terrible customer service - they're happy to lose a long-standing customer for the sake of giving me a £2 discount each month. Pathetic

Guys_Dad

DAM wrote: »

I just got off the phone with Orange, tried everything but they wouldn't budge - ended up quoting me £390 to cancel my contracts early. I've been with them for over 10 years and have two pay monthly phones with them

Definitely moving to a different provider when the contracts are up later this year, (even if they are "all the same"). Terrible customer service - they're happy to lose a long-standing customer for the sake of giving me a £2 discount each month. Pathetic

Wait a couple of days. Then try again, but be very pleasant. Ask if there is anything they can do as you have read that longstanding customers have had some goodwill gesture.

No threats - remember that the CS person doesn't get the additional rental charge - and hope for a CS rep that DID get out of bed on the right side. But remember that it is at their discretion and being nice does work. I know - it worked for me last time.

PaulaBabe

This is an interesting video on Orange / EE miss selling a contract after they were asked about price increases etc at the point of sale then refusal to cancel a miss sold contract. Interesting the Orange, and EE facebook pages keep removing the link to this video on you tube showing evidence of miss selling and block and report anyone who posts it. Must be a sensitive issue for Orange / EE as a company and very embarrassing to have this evidence in the public forums: youtu.be/BecASN3BV9w - MSE would not let me post link so add the http part at the front!

Anyone visiting the Orange UK / Orange / EE facebook pages - post this under some of the articles so it remains on the page and see how long it takes for Orange to remove the post. Someone has caused them some embarrassment.

PaulaBabe

If someone who is not new can find and post the link for others (MSE wont allow new members to post links in case it is spam!) - that may be useful for others collecting evidence of Orange miss selling mobile phone contracts