Say No to 0870!

DonnyDave

bbb_uk wrote:

That I believe is true that's why I'm recommending in my ofcom consultation response that any call that isn't a geographical should have call announcements when called from a mobile because calls cost upto 40ppm which is significantly higher than from a landline. If people were made aware of this then there would be more outrage and companies would receive more complaints, which in turn they may consider to start using a geographical instead.

If companies really cared, then they would be replying to Ofcom's consultation, saying how outrageous it is that their customers' telcos cannot undercut the typical 7.51p/min daytime rate for 0870 calls.

The fact that they think it's nothing to do with them is because they are consumers too who can't comprehend the fact that something as simple as a telephone number can be such a problem.

bbb_uk

DonnyDave wrote:

If companies really cared, then they would be replying to Ofcom's consultation, saying how outrageous it is that their customers' telcos cannot undercut the typical 7.51p/min daytime rate for 0870 calls.

I agree but most don't care. Most are purposely using these NGN's for the revenue share and because most consumers overall have a lack of knowledge about the cost of these calls and the revenue sharing that takes place hence reason why it is a "stealth" premium rate.

DonnyDave

bbb_uk wrote:

I agree but most don't care. Most are purposely using these NGN's for the revenue share and because most consumers overall have a lack of knowledge about the cost of these calls and the revenue sharing that takes place hence reason why it is a "stealth" premium rate.

But many people 'think' that premium rate numbers are expensive numbers. The industry does nothing to emphasise the fact that they are premium rate for the simple fact that they carry a premium. Any 'revenue sharing' number is therefore, by definition, a premium rate number.

FJSRiDER

theloft wrote:

I recently contacted Virgin Wines with an enquiry and received an e-mail which indicated that if you ordered by telephone or had any queries you had to phone an 0870 number. I e-mailed them stating that I objected to calling 0870 numbers

Obviously they completely missed the point, but it is also obvious that the majority of people ignore the fact that they are dialling an 0870 number and just dial whatever number is presented to them!!

I've just sent an email to '[EMAIL=suggestions@virginwines.com]suggestions@virginwines.com[/EMAIL] ' suggesting that if they want me to place an order they'll get a regular phone number for me to use first.

If enough people do this they can't use the argument that 'no-one complains'.

Heinz

It has long been my view that 070, 084 & 087 numbers are Premium Rate simply because, to call them, I have to pay more than I would have to pay to call an 01 or 02 number. In other words, I am charged a premium rate (which, despite the lack of capitals, amounts to the same thing).

Try to explain that to the firms (like Sky) which use these numbers (and blatently make money by keeping customers on hold) and they normally reply, "No, they're not, Premium Numbers start with 09."

My reply to that, "Exactly, why aren't you using an 09 number then?" usually results, in the manner now typical of UK customer (dis)service in the 21st Century, in the call being terminated.

DonnyDave

The thing is that Ofcom refer to these 'services' as "value-added services".

Most 'services' never admit to receiving revenue.

Ofcom wears tinted specs and doesn't want to take home the fact that most companies don't want their customers to know about the revenue generating aspect of their number.

colin_tomlinson

Slightly OT, but here's an excerpt from a conversation I had with someone about call centres.

"My company's thinking of changing the call centre we use." [NB The call centre is often out sourced - the person you are speaking to is NOT always an employee of the company - even if it's your bank!]

"One of the best ones has reduced their staff turnover to 68%." In other words, this particular call centre now manages to keep almost a third of their employees for twelve months (on average) - AND THIS IS A SELLING POINT!

Goes to show, the person you're speaking to probably hasn't been there all that long anyway, be they an employee of the company or just the call centre. This is why getting sense from them is so difficult - even at 7.51p/minute!

bbb_uk

DonnyDave wrote:

Ofcom wears tinted specs and doesn't want to take home the fact that most companies don't want their customers to know about the revenue generating aspect of their number.

I agree. They also brush complaints over these numbers under the fancy carpets.

clock24

Unless as many people as possible respond to the Ofcom consultation - and demand that Ofcom (who, unfortunately are 'in the pockets of' the telcos) insist that 0870 & 0845 are either reclassified as 09 premium rate, or included in 'normal' call packages. Consumers are losing millions every year to this scam - yet it is so hard to publicise because most 'large' organisations, BBC, newspapers etc all use 0870 and turkeys don't vote for Christmas!
Do your bit - spend a few minutes putting a response in to Ofcom, and we will all be better off, possibly?

Heinz

clock24 wrote:

Unless as many people as possible respond to the Ofcom consultation - and demand that Ofcom (who, unfortunately are 'in the pockets of' the telcos) insist that 0870 & 0845 are either reclassified as 09 premium rate, or included in 'normal' call packages. Consumers are losing millions every year to this scam - yet it is so hard to publicise because most 'large' organisations, BBC, newspapers etc all use 0870 and turkeys don't vote for Christmas!
Do your bit - spend a few minutes putting a response in to Ofcom, and we will all be better off, possibly?

And don't just answer "Yes" because the devious way in which the questions are worded invites such a one-word answer. Read beyond the question.

The first question, for example, asks, "Do you agree with our proposal that revenue sharing should no longer be allowed on 0870 calls if the link between 0870 call prices and prices for 01 and 02 geographic calls is restored?" If you read the consultation document, you will see that part of that proposal (although not mentioned in the question) is, for those who choose not to align their prices to 01/02 costs, to allow continued use of higher prices provided that an announcement early in the call tells the caller what the cost is.

Note the restricted wording used in the question and, particularly, the loaded, "Do you agree ...." part. The obvious answer is, "Yes" but, if you've read the rest of the section in the consultation document, you become aware that the proposed 'solution' is not that straightforward. The real proposal does not actually solve anything because it is a sop to the firms and organisations that use such numbers as income-generating 'disguised premium rate numbers' - and allows them to continue. Outrageously, it even includes:

A gradual change. Because these proposals would mean big changes for everyone involved in NTS, introducing them too quickly could harm businesses that rely on income from phone calls. So, we have proposed a 12-month delay before any changes are made to 0870 numbers. This would give companies that rely on revenue sharing the time to move their services to 0844 or 0871 numbers.

Which really means, "we'll do nothing for a year so that they can carry on ripping the public off after moving to 0844 (up to 5p/minute) or 0871 (up to 10p/minute) numbers."

IMHO, a better answer would be, "No. The question evades the real issue. Merely allowing the abuse to continue by making users provide a cost announcement at the start of a call is not a solution to the abuse.

Those who wish to revenue generate/share should use an 09 number - as the NNP (National Numbering Plan) originally required. This should apply to all 070, 084, 087 numbers as well. The public understands 09 numbers are Premium Rate and allowing use of ANY other prefixes confuses."

P.S. I just loved the below extract from the consultation:

These 08 and 09 numbers have no connection with any particular place, unlike 01 and 02 numbers which relate to particular parts of the UK (for example, an 02 number is in London). You'll find more information in annex A about how NTS and 'geographic' calls work.

I regard that as proof of how muddled the so-called regulator is (020 numbers are in London, 02x numbers can be in Coventry, Southampton etc.). I'd have thought they should know that.