Wizz Air says long delay is caused by extraordinary circumstances

lasek22uk

I tried my best but I got asnwer as "Computer says no"...
See this letter from their complaint dept. They are saying

"Please consider that Wizz Air as operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation, if cancellation or long delay is caused by extraordinary circumstances"

and full letter is below. Any ideas? Can I challenge this?

Cheers!
lasek


**********************************************
Thank you for contacting our Customer Relations Department. Please accept our sincere apology for the inconvenience caused by the long delay of your flight.

With regards to your claim we would like to draw your attention that the flight W6 552 on December 3, 2010 was delayed due to an unexpected technical problem (water system frozen) that needed immediate attention in order not to jeopardize the safety of the flight.

Please consider that Wizz Air as operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation, if cancellation or long delay is caused by extraordinary circumstances according to Art. 5. par. (3) of Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the council establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights.

Originally Art.5. par. (3) of the Regulation applies to flight cancellations but the European Court of Justice in its judgments concerning compensations for long delays of flights extended the application of Art.5. par. (3), stating that the airline shall not pay compensation for long delays, if the long delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. (the most recent relevant judgment of the court was delivered on 23th October 2012 in joined cases C-581/10 and C-629/10.)

We would like to inform you that according to the operative EC regulation and our General Conditions of Carriage, in case of a flight delay we are willing to reimburse your expenses occured directly due to the delay such as meals, refreshments and two brief telephone calls can be reimbursed in reasonable relation to the waiting time upon reception of supplementing invoices.

As for the additional expenses, we kindly ask you to forward all related invoices, as an attachment to your reply, so that we can determine a possible compensation and please send us the further information:

- IBAN
- swift code
- full name of the bank
- account holder's name
- account currency.

In conclusion, we maintain that the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken, namely circumstances beyond the actual control of Wizz Air.

Again, please accept our deepest apologies for the inconvenience and disappointment caused. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Best regards,

Customer Relations Department

lasek22uk

Centipede100 - I know I need a LOT of ammunition, any ideas?

lasek22uk

So WizzAir eventually replied! Phew!!!!

[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]Thank you for your response. We would like to emphasize that the reason for the flight delay was an unpreventable, unforeseeable yet serious technical shortcoming (water system was frozen) that could not be detected during the regular maintenance sessions, and required immediate in-depth assessment and repair in order not to jeopardize the safety of the forthcoming flights. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]Since the incident was due to extraordinary circumstances, events which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures have been taken, Wizz Air disclaims liability to pay any damages or further compensation.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES: events which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures have been taken, such as but not limited to cases of acts of God; political instability; meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned; security risks, strikes; [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]unexpected flight safety shortcomings[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif] and air traffic management decisions which, in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day give rise to a long delay or the cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]We are sorry that we could not predict how long would it take to depart, but many circumstances affect it, which can cause further delays than expected as it occurs to turn out during the checking. And if we had overestimated the required time, we would not have been able to depart earlier without the passengers regardless a conditional case where the aircraft had been ready earlier than expected, and to depart as soon as possible is our common interest. We know that the time consuming process caused huge inconveniences, but safety is always on the first place. As a young but continuously developing airline we are trying all the best and most to improve our technical, human and service background. [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]In order to mollify the inconveniences caused by the delay of your flight we would like to offer you 30 GBP/passenger in reservation credits to make new bookings by Wizzair. Please let us know whether you wish to accept the offered credit amount and please provide us your 10-digit long customer ID (or your registration e-mail address).[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]6.3. In reservations paid from WIZZ Account, the account holder has to be one of the passengers travelling.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Verdana,sans-serif]Thank you for your time and understanding.[/FONT][/FONT]

Jamie_Carter

The question here is was it abnormal circumstances that caused the water system to freeze?

Commercial aircraft are designed to operate in extremely low temperatures. And as far as I know Wizz Air don't fly over the polar ice caps where I expect temperatures at 35000 feet are far lower than over Europe.

On the other hand, if you were seriously inconvenienced by the delay, then go ahead with the claim. But if you are just part of the compensation culture then accept their offer, rather than pushing up air fares for the rest of us.

Jamie_Carter

Centipede100 wrote: »

What offer?

"Pushing up air fares" (that old chestnut:mad:)or legally complying with applicable laws!!

The offer of £30. Haven't you read the thread?


Yes that old chestnut. Because it's the compensation culture that is pushing up all sorts of prices these days. I suppose you think 'no win no fee' companies were brilliant?

Airlines don't deliberately delay flights you know!

David_e

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

On the other hand, if you were seriously inconvenienced by the delay, then go ahead with the claim. But if you are just part of the compensation culture then accept their offer, rather than pushing up air fares for the rest of us.

So are you saying you wouldn't claim compensation to which you were legally entitled? What does "seriously" mean to you? Presumably airlines would argue that making adequate provision to avoid delays and consequent compensation would result in "pushing up air fares for the rest of us". Treating customers properly pays off.

Valerieives

I have challenged Monarch Airlines due to a 6hr 20mins delay in 2011 but they have refused to compensate due to their engine failure being an extraordinary circumstance. I wrote back disagreeing this decision because I said it should have been a maintenance issue. They then went on to say I had complained to the wrong country and as it happened in Spain I was to get in touch with them.
I have written to the civil aviation authority and they have told me it's nothing to do with them. I have since written to Monarch again and am still awaiting a reply (3 weeks)

Jamie_Carter

David_e wrote: »

So are you saying you wouldn't claim compensation to which you were legally entitled?

Yes I am saying that. We seem to have taken on the American compensation culture, where people just look to see which business they can claim compensation from next, to gain a payout. And sod the fact that all these payouts have to be paid fore somehow, and that cost is just passed on in price rises

David_e wrote: »

What does "seriously" mean to you?

I would say that 'seriously' would be someone who has suffered substantial financial loss, someone who has missed a connection, someone who has missed an important even or business meeting, or someone who has lost a whole day of their holiday, etc... But not somebody who has just had to wait a few extra hours in an airport departure lounge.

David_e wrote: »

Presumably airlines would argue that making adequate provision to avoid delays and consequent compensation would result in "pushing up air fares for the rest of us". Treating customers properly pays off.

Airlines don't want delays, mainly because it has a huge knock on effect. And can have huge financial costs without including compensation to passengers. A budget airline relies on quick turnaround times and punctuality in order to operate efficiently.

Most people moan when the prices go up. Nobody complains when they get cheap airfares

Jamie_Carter

Centipede100 wrote: »

I don't recall £30 cash being offered, merely a reservation credit for that amount. Which doesn't amount to a credible settlement in any way shape or form for the loss of time suffered by the OP nor is it related to the standardised compensation to which the OP is entitled in law.

The compensation mandated in 261/2004 has been around for over 8 years so if it has pushed prices up then it would have worked its way through any price increases imposed by airlines on passengers long before now.

Prices have gone up. In fact with budget airlines they have almost doubled in many cases.

Jamie_Carter

Centipede100 wrote: »

But most of this increase is in no way due to having to provide compensation under 261/2004 but simply due to the huge increases in cost of jet fuel as has been discussed before with you in another thread.

But some of it is, and that's my point. Air fares are higher partly due to the claims culture we live in. This is the same as insurance premiums going up due to false injury claims, and shop prices going up due to people making claims because they have slipped over on something that another customer may have dropped. It all gets passed on to the consumer.

Jamie_Carter

Centipede100 wrote: »

To simply blame the increase on the claims culture misses the point entirely in that airlines are required by law to pay standardised compensation to those passengers whose flights are cancelled or delayed or who are denied boarding.

This is not at all the same as compensation claims being made due to trips/falls and injuries whether legitimate or not as those types of claims would be referred to insurance and are not necessarily included in a company's business plan whereas claims under 261/2004 should be part ofm the business plan of an airline both from a flight scheduling perspective and from a financial perspective as the EU have produced figures to state that 0.15% of passengers may suffer delays/cancellations that could lead to compensation to be paid.

Ryanair even put a figure of 2.5 euros per flight on this liability so we're not talking huge figures in terms of higher fares are we?

When Ryanair used to do flights for £1, then I'd say it is a huge raise in prices.


Take the BA flight that recently lost it's engine covers, resulting in an engine fire. This was put down to them not being secured properly. So in this case it was down to poor maintenance, and compensation would be justified. However if it had been down to failure of the catches, and BA had followed maintenance procedures, then it would have been unavoidable. But I suspect you would still be advising people to claim. And all of these extra claims have to be processed, which costs money.