Flight delay compensation, US and Canadian Airlines

romanby1

kittykat15 wrote: »

We were delayed sitting on the runway at Heathrow for just over 2 hours with no explanation but.....as luck would have it we were the last passengers to get on the plane as there was a delay in getting assisted help to the bus that took us to the plane, (sorry if this is long)

As the delay was under 3 hours you do not have a claim. What happened in the US is not covered by EC261/2004.

Vauban

romanby1 wrote: »

As the delay was under 3 hours you do not have a claim. What happened in the US is not covered by EC261/2004.

I don't think this is correct, Romanby1.

The Folkerts judgement ruled that the delay that counted was to the "final destination" of the passenger. On this the court explains:

‘The concept of ‘final destination’ is defined in Article 2(h) of Regulation No 261/2004 as being the destination on the ticket presented at the check-in counter or, in the case of directly connecting flights, the destination of the last flight.’

So if the flight to Dallas was a directly connecting one (from Minn) then it is to be treated as if the flight had gone directly to Dallas from the UK.

A useful write up of the Folkerts judgement is available here: http://eutopialaw.com/2013/03/18/sturgeon-revisited-yet-again-case-c-1111-air-france-v-folkerts/

romanby1

Vauban wrote: »

I don't think this is correct, Romanby1.

The Folkerts judgement ruled that the delay that counted was to the "final destination" of the passenger. On this the court explains:

‘The concept of ‘final destination’ is defined in Article 2(h) of Regulation No 261/2004 as being the destination on the ticket presented at the check-in counter or, in the case of directly connecting flights, the destination of the last flight.’

So if the flight to Dallas was a directly connecting one (from Minn) then it is to be treated as if the flight had gone directly to Dallas from the UK.

A useful write up of the Folkerts judgement is available here: http://eutopialaw.com/2013/03/18/sturgeon-revisited-yet-again-case-c-1111-air-france-v-folkerts/

Sorry I was not aware of this.

kittykat15

Thank you Vauban, the connecting flight was with the same airline and on the same ticket. My next question is where do I send a claim to as Northwest merged with Delta a few months after our holiday,

kittykat15

Al1x wrote: »

I've just realised I still haven't heard back from Delta! Is there any way of actually contacting them and getting a response? I have sent a letter and emailed.

Hi Al1x,
Have you had any luck with Delta yet? It seems I may have a valid claim against them (well Northwest originally but they merged with Delta in 2008) and I haven't a clue who to contact or where and would appreciate any information you can give.

I_Love_Holidays_3

Hi, I was looking for some advice in relation to flight cancellation which took place in Orlando. We were flying with US Airways. Our flight was due to fly from Orlando to Charlotte then we were to get a connecting flight, with the same airline, on to Dublin. Our flight was cancelled from Orlando to Charlotte due to a mechanical fault which meant we couldn't make our connecting flight from Charlotte to Dublin. The airline flew us later that same evening with another American airline to New York and then we got a connecting flight with Aer Lingus to Dublin. US Airways paid for our flights and put us up in a hotel in New York for the night. I was wondering if we would be entitled to compensation in any shape or form?

Many Thanks

Voyager2002

I_Love_Holidays wrote: »

Hi, I was looking for some advice in relation to flight cancellation which took place in Orlando. We were flying with US Airways. Our flight was due to fly from Orlando to Charlotte then we were to get a connecting flight, with the same airline, on to Dublin. Our flight was cancelled from Orlando to Charlotte due to a mechanical fault which meant we couldn't make our connecting flight from Charlotte to Dublin. The airline flew us later that same evening with another American airline to New York and then we got a connecting flight with Aer Lingus to Dublin. US Airways paid for our flights and put us up in a hotel in New York for the night. I was wondering if we would be entitled to compensation in any shape or form?

Many Thanks

None: that is the risk you take when you use carriers that are not based in the civilised world. The rules on compensation only apply to airlines that are based within the EU (and to all flights departing airports in the EU).

Next time, fly with Air France, preferably to a holiday destination under French rule. And count yourselves lucky that the mechanical fault did not kill you, and that US Airways chose to give you a hotel: they were not legally obliged to do so and often do not help in this kind of situation.

gallaghb

I've received a response from United to my NBA letter as below. I specifically requested full details of the unexpected flight safety shortcoming they were claiming was the reason for the delay which they have not given me. So do I issue court papers, any specific wording I should use in light of the below from United? I have just read the recent update to the guidelines and am worried that I take them to court and it turns out the flight was delayed due to one of the safety shortcoming reasons.

We have again reviewed your request for cash compensation and found that we complied with all the applicable regulations at the time of your flight.

I understand that the delay was, at best, very frustrating and truly regret you were disappointed. Please let me explain why cash compensation is not applicable under European Regulation EC261. Because all routine preventative maintenance actions were performed on the aircraft as scheduled, and the extended delay could not have been reasonably predicted or avoided, the event is considered force majeure and exclusionary to the mandatory compensation rules.

Please know that our legal department carefully reviews each of here matters with our system and technical operations groups to ensure we are in full compliance with the appropriate legal standards. Although the cause of the irregularity was extraordinary and unable to be avoided, we did what we could do to minimise it, and have nothing further to advise at this point.

Because we do recognise that your flight plans were negatively impacted, as a tangible gesture of our regret, we sent you an electronic travel certificate valid toward a discount on a future United Airlines flight.

Vauban

This is utter bunkum. There s nothing in law that says that because routine maintenance was done, and the fault not predicted, then compensation is not due. I accept that the non-binding so-called "preliminary guidelines" muddy the waters. But they don't change that fundamental fact.

The airline has just given you the proverbial two fingers. So either say thank you for their voucher or take them to court. No one can guarantee you success if you choose the latter, but from the stats on this website 90% of those that start legal action have been successful.

Good luck with whatever you chose to do next.

friendofbillw2

Vauban wrote: »

This is utter bunkum. There s nothing in law that says that because routine maintenance was done, and the fault not predicted, then compensation is not due.

I just want to underline this.

The airlines often try and argue that :

- Because technical issues down to a failure to maintain are not extraordinary circumstances, and
- The aircraft was correctly maintained

It follows that :

- Technical failures on a properly maintained aircraft are extraordinary circumstances.

Er, except it doesn't follow. That is just rank bad logic. If it was 'binary' (the light is not on, therefore it must be off) that would work. But it isn't.

Wallentin gives the clearest test of what is and is not extraordinary circumstances. Is this failure 'inherent in the normal activity of the carrier concerned'? If it is, it cannot be extraordinary circumstances. It's that simple.

Don't be afraid to point this flawed logic out to your judge. They love this sort of thing.