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BMW or Audi
Comments
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I know, I'm a bit weird aren't I?
Fine. But dont force that opinion on others or judge them as 'trying to impress others' just because they dont have your outlook.
A car is just a machine, nothing more, nothing less. People can talk about 'soul' and 'character' as much as they want, fact is no car has either, in true terms.
No, it doesnt. However in terms of driving experience they vary vastly. To use an extreme example, try driving a porsche boxster on a cross country blast as opposed to say a Toyota Avensis and which one will put a smile on your face?
I'm sure if you looked up the internet you could find many 'faults' with Boxsters but few would agree the Avensis is the better or more enjoyable ownership experience?
I read a good comment on PistonHeads a little while ago, it read;
"The Germans have perceived quality absolutely nailed, but the Japanese have actual quality absolutely nailed. There is a distinct difference between the two."
This guy is 100% spot on IMO.
No doubt. My wife had a Subaru Impreza WRXS. Actual quality - ie, did anything fall off the car and did we ever have the impression that it wouldnt feel exactly the same in 20 years time? No.
Was it terribly plasticky and feeling cheap. A very big YES. Perceived quality was LOW.
Now. Does it matter to my wife that the car will still be in one piece in 20 years time. No, not really. Is perceived quality in terms of the actual quality of those parts she can touch and see more important to her? Yes.
You wouldn't buy an unreliable TV, an unreliable washing machine, you certainly wouldn't step on an unreliable aeroplane to head for your holidays - why are German cars exempt from this rule? I'm sorry but it really is people being sheep, and believing the hype around them, I've no idea where it came from.
That holds true IF and its a big IF people only buy german cars because they believe they are the ultimate in reliability and are hewn out of granite.
I dont actually believe thats true.
I know BMW and Merc have been highly regarded for quite some time, but VW (and by extension, Audi) only really became REALLY popular here around 1996/1997 when the MK4 Golf and B5 Passat came along. These two models had relatively 'posh' interiors, the B5 Passat was all of a sudden the car that reps dreamt of instead of their Mondeos/Vectras etc. By coincedence, the two models were atrociuous. Who ever chose a Passat before this time?
The mk4 golf and B5 passat are not 'atrocious'. They were both fantastic cars and i'd almost go as far as to say the B5 Passat was a game changer in its category.
Honest John's 'what's bad' - Golf Mk4;
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/golf-iv-1998/?section=bad
That list almost filled the Internet!
Yes, all those massive problems like "The back of the car gets very dirty" and "Not everyone likes the relatively hard seats"
Also, if you look down that 'extensive' list, there tends to only be a handful of issues per engine variant.
The point being, if you were to search any car variant for problems on the internet, you WILL find some.0 -
The mk4 golf and B5 passat are not 'atrocious'. They were both fantastic cars and i'd almost go as far as to say the B5 Passat was a game changer in its category.
Yes, all those massive problems like "The back of the car gets very dirty" and "Not everyone likes the relatively hard seats"
Also, if you look down that 'extensive' list, there tends to only be a handful of issues per engine variant.
The point being, if you were to search any car variant for problems on the internet, you WILL find some.
I'm not going to bother responding to all the seperate bits Paul, I genuinely can't be bothered, hope that isn't rude, but I have to take exception to this. The Mk4 and B5 are utter, utter, utter cr*p (even though you chose to pick the 'dirty' comment from the Mk4 problem catalogue). The Passat kinda did change the game, in that it gave repmobiles a posh interior (and from that day forward everyone assumed VW's were 'quality), but just like the Golf 4, it has more inherent problems than almost anything, ever.
I'd be surprised if you can find a Japanese model with a quarter as many known issues as a Mk4 Golf, but even in the very unlikely event that you did, the model wouldn't be getting 'drooled over', and commanding the relatively high prices that Golf's do.
Even if they were average cars (and I sincerely rank them below-average), they definitely don't deserve the level of 'desire' that people give them.And that my son, is how to waft a towel!0 -
Very embarassing for a company that these days just trades on 'reliability' though.
I don't think it's just about reliabilty is it?
They do rather well with innovation too (with the LFA at the pinnacle), and general robustness (such as their pick-up that made it to the North Pole, and their Land Cruisers that are favoured by the UN etc.).
Don't forget they are the World's No1 car manufacturer, even though us British know that there's better stuff out there, for just a bit more money...And that my son, is how to waft a towel!0 -
I'm not going to bother responding to all the seperate bits Paul, I genuinely can't be bothered, hope that isn't rude, but I have to take exception to this. The Mk4 and B5 are utter, utter, utter cr*p (even though you chose to pick the 'dirty' comment from the Mk4 problem catalogue). The Passat kinda did change the game, in that it gave repmobiles a posh interior (and from that day forward everyone assumed VW's were 'quality), but just like the Golf 4, it has more inherent problems than almost anything, ever.
I'd be surprised if you can find a Japanese model with a quarter as many known issues as a Mk4 Golf, but even in the very unlikely event that you did, the model wouldn't be getting 'drooled over', and commanding the relatively high prices that Golf's do.
Even if they were average cars (and I sincerely rank them below-average), they definitely don't deserve the level of 'desire' that people give them.
Now this might be crazy talk - but what if people actually buy them because they like them? :eek:0 -
Don't forget they are the World's No1 car manufacturer, even though us British know that there's better stuff out there, for just a bit more money...
Firstly, that quote would be based on volume of sales. On that basis alone, Fiat would be 'better' than Ferrari because more people buy Fiats.
Secondly, and most importantly - you're WRONG. According to Forbes, GM are the largest followed by VW with Toyota in third.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2012/01/19/gm-is-back-in-the-auto-sales-drivers-seat/0 -
As motorguy said, search any model and you will see some variants with issues.
However the assertion that anything but Japanese (and Korean) are unreliable just doesn't make sense.
Its not that every Audi or BMW is plagued with faults and every Honda or Toyota will never have problems.
On some scales they may be more reliable ... but what is that scale?
They still need brakes, tyres and oil... run them without oil or water in the radiator and they break.0 -
My dad has had his Honda civic from new (15 years).
It has been looked after,garaged every night and only does 5k per year.
But he has had a few problems with it,including new rear suspension at 15k and a new gearbox at 55k. It also goes through a lot of pads and brake discs despite been driven gently.
It is also as dull as dishwater.
Not every Japanese car is reliable.
Give me my Audi any day.0 -
My dad has had his Honda civic from new (15 years).
It has been looked after,garaged every night and only does 5k per year.
But he has had a few problems with it,including new rear suspension at 15k and a new gearbox at 55k. It also goes through a lot of pads and brake discs despite been driven gently.
It is also as dull as dishwater.
Not every Japanese car is reliable.
Give me my Audi any day.
Speaking of Civics - my son has an 06 Civic 1.8 and it has definite gearbox problems. We checked on the internet and its a known issue and may need a gearbox strip to resolve.
No particular car is fault free, and no particular car is 100% reliable, which is more reason to believe we all drive what we want to drive, NOT what we perceive to be the most reliable.0
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