BMW or Audi

fivetide

motorguy wrote: »

The O/P never mentioned that reliability was a deciding factor for them?

No but 'forgotmyname' the person who I quoted and was responding to did.

Regards,

fivetide

motorguy

TradePro wrote: »

You have attempted to impress with details or how wealthy and 'great at choosing cars' your wife is (and I am not disrespecting her in any way) but the Z4 at £299 per month isn't that impressive (I know people spending that much on a Focus), but be honest, she has chosen that car EXACTLY for image reasons (p.s. you didn't need to tell us that it had leather and 19" wheels, unless of course you were hoping to impress?).

I quoted the details because it impressed ME. Its her car, she chose it because it was what she wanted and she pays for it.

I think a z4 at £299 a month is VERY impressive, given by your own example there are people out there paying £299 a month for a Focus? Would you not agree?

It actually calls me to question all your willy waving about your experience in leasing etc, when you think £299 a month for a brand new car with a list price of £35,000 ISNT impressive? Best get a £299 a month Mazda 3 instead perhaps?

TradePro wrote: »

When I worked at the Mazda dealer, we had a line up of used MX-5's (around 9 or 10 at a time) and one Z3 in stock for a little while (it was prior to the Z4 being launched) that was almost double the price of the MX-5's - everytime it rained, guess which one was like a paddling pool??!!

Was never a fan of the z3. Would have an mx5 all day long over one. Had several mx5's over the last couple of years. Great little cars. The BEST one i owned was a 1989 poverty spec 1.6 one that i picked up for £700.

TradePro wrote: »

Here is a current thread about how good Audi's are;

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3974841

Here is a report confirming that your belief in BMW's and Audi's is utterly wrong;

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/62383/german-cars-among-worst-engine-failures

And here is the fabulous Z4 sitting at number 57 in the charts;

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/jd-power-survey-2012/the-results/263078

I'm sorry, but why are you equating GOOD with RELIABLE?? Some of the best cars ever have been absolute pigs of things to run - or rustbuckets (Alfasud anyone?), but they were still brilliant.

I have used my own experience RE: giving examples of reliability - not just what i read on the internet and provided links to - and in our experience we have had no significant reliability issues, but having said that, reliability is not why they were bought. Of interest, the one she did get rid of before end of term was a 2010 Subaru WRX-S which let her down several times by not starting on cold mornings.

TradePro wrote: »

Of course I wouldn't expect your wife to choose an I10 (although it would probably prove to be the best car she had owned, in some respects), but how about a Lexus of some kind, a Nissan 370Z, or something like that.

The 370Z was on her shortlist as it was more in keeping with the Z4 3.0Si Coupe she had had previously - and loved - however the deal on it were terrible. Something like £6000 deposit and £600 a month. No wonder there are so few on the road.

TradePro wrote: »

I don't want to argue and go around in circles Paul, but if you want me to keep on firing these links to dismantle your argument, there are literally millions of similar ones I can post.

No doubt. And if you want me to find links about reliability problems with japanese cars i can do that too - dare i mention worldwide recalls of Toyotas???

Thats not 'dismantling' my argument by the way - i never said BMW's were perfect, i merely find it banal that someone like you with all this 'experience' is saying 'hey dont buy the car you want, get yourself a nice 'reliable' japbox instead'.

Maybe we're just not at the carpet pipe and slippers age yet whereby we have to worry foremost about reliabilty and want we want comes down the list.

motorguy

TradePro wrote: »

One final example, and then I'll move on;

Renault Koleos, launched in UK in 2008. Decent and capable car under the skin (essentially a re-bodied Nissan X-Trail), didn't sell due to being 'ugly', and withdrawn from UK market;



Audi Q3, launched 2010 - still subject to a 'waiting list';

Wouldnt have a Q3, X3 or X1 about me. Horrible cars.

steve-L

motorguy wrote: »

No doubt. And if you want me to find links about reliability problems with japanese cars i can do that too - dare i mention worldwide recalls of Toyotas???

Thats not 'dismantling' my argument by the way - i never said BMW's were perfect, i merely find it banal that someone like you with all this 'experience' is saying 'hey dont buy the car you want, get yourself a nice 'reliable' japbox instead'.

Based on the experience of the original owners my BMW beats the my Honda on reliability ... I have very full service and parts records for both... the Honda required a new VSA unit at 31,000 (or something) ...

My BMW has 125,000 or so on it and has NEVER required anything but diesel, engine oil, screenwash, disks, pads etc. with the exception the headlight seal which was optional/cosmetic.

The Honda has a few parts require replacement, minor ones but required.

I drive the BMW because it is nice to drive, I enjoy it in a way that has nothing to do with the actual badge... not what anyone else thinks. Hence I didn't upgrade the alloys or put in angel eyes etc.

TradePro

motorguy wrote: »

I think a z4 at £299 a month is VERY impressive, given by your own example there are people out there paying £299 a month for a Focus? Would you not agree?

Sorry regarding this bit Paul, seems we had crossed wires.

The £299 payment for a £35k car IS of course an impressive deal (albeit I have my own views as to whether it should have a £35k price tag), what I meant was that spending £299 a month on a car wasn't 'super league', and that many 'normal' people, spend this on 'normal' cars.

rockandroller

It's all so BLOODY SUBJECTIVE, isn't it??

FWIW, my vote says B'mer - with NOKIAN STUDDED SNOW TIRES

But personally I'd skip them both and buy a Swedish car instead

TradePro

motorguy wrote: »

I'm sorry, but why are you equating GOOD with RELIABLE??

I know, I'm a bit weird aren't I?

A car is just a machine, nothing more, nothing less. People can talk about 'soul' and 'character' as much as they want, fact is no car has either, in true terms.

I read a good comment on PistonHeads a little while ago, it read;

"The Germans have perceived quality absolutely nailed, but the Japanese have actual quality absolutely nailed. There is a distinct difference between the two."

This guy is 100% spot on IMO.

You wouldn't buy an unreliable TV, an unreliable washing machine, you certainly wouldn't step on an unreliable aeroplane to head for your holidays - why are German cars exempt from this rule? I'm sorry but it really is people being sheep, and believing the hype around them, I've no idea where it came from.

I know BMW and Merc have been highly regarded for quite some time, but VW (and by extension, Audi) only really became REALLY popular here around 1996/1997 when the MK4 Golf and B5 Passat came along. These two models had relatively 'posh' interiors, the B5 Passat was all of a sudden the car that reps dreamt of instead of their Mondeos/Vectras etc. By coincedence, the two models were atrociuous. Who ever chose a Passat before this time?

Honest John's 'what's bad' - Golf Mk4;

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/golf-iv-1998/?section=bad

That list almost filled the Internet!

TradePro

motorguy wrote: »

And if you want me to find links about reliability problems with japanese cars i can do that too - dare i mention worldwide recalls of Toyotas???

This matter was primarily fat American's chasing ambulances for compensation.

motorguy

TradePro wrote: »

Sorry regarding this bit Paul, seems we had crossed wires.

The £299 payment for a £35k car IS of course an impressive deal (albeit I have my own views as to whether it should have a £35k price tag), what I meant was that spending £299 a month on a car wasn't 'super league', and that many 'normal' people, spend this on 'normal' cars.

Yes, and i never meant to imply otherwise.

My point was - and still is - you can have something very nice and drive 'what you want' without having to resort to driving some dull japbox.

colino

Well OP, that seems to have resolved your query. The choice is between two nice cars (but the Audi will bore you to death) and some white goods from the Far East. Simple.