So I have been sacked for racial abuse...

fedupnow

TopQuark wrote: »

Some people are suggesting that it's ridiculous to be offended by remarks made to another person.

I'm guessing these same people wouldn't be bothered in the slightest then, if someone referred to their mother as a prozzie or called their wife a minger?

My OH is French and was once hilariously referred to as a 'cheese-eating surrender monkey'. OH had no idea what this meant. I replied to the speaker that we didn't usually keep company with 'trigger-happy rednecks', so the occasion was new for us. Interestingly enough, he didn't seem to see the humour in my response. Funny that eh?

It's not quite the same thing though, sorry.

Calling your wife that is shocking and unforgivable. This is totally different. The setting, the relationship ... everything.

Sambucus_Nigra

fedupnow wrote: »

mmm. You're likely correct.

I'd still be angry though. I work in a very male environment and there is nothing worse than some jumped up geezer 'stepping in to help out.' It undermines me and is patronising and, yes, sexist. They wouldn't do it to a guy, don't do it to me.

You can be as angry as you want - but having worked in construction for half my career; I left because the daily grind of sexist comments [when I was the supervisor] that were never addressed meant another female left the industry just because each day was such hard work deflecting these comments.

So I applaud employers who try to banish sexist and racist talk from their employees - rather than those who turn a blind eye just because the person on the receiving end seems ok with it.

Sometimes they have just been so conditioned they don't realise the impact it can have.

fedupnow

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

You can be as angry as you want - but having worked in construction for half my career; I left because the daily grind of sexist comments [when I was the supervisor] that were never addressed meant another female left the industry just because each day was such hard work deflecting these comments.

So I applaud employers who try to banish sexist and racist talk from their employees - rather than those who turn a blind eye just because the person on the receiving end seems ok with it.

Sometimes they have just been so conditioned they don't realise the impact it can have.

And we come the full circle. Was calling her 'black' racist? And was claiming not to take orders off a woman (when he does every working shift) sexist?

I think no. I even think they thought 'no' which is why they added on the lie about the op not wanting to take orders off the boss because he was black.

Maybe the boss felt it easier to let the op go than the two offendees, especially if the female boss is in the same clique. And he's worked there under the year. All together a bit of a no-brainer, I suppose.

TopQuark

fedupnow wrote: »

It's not quite the same thing though, sorry.

Calling your wife that is shocking and unforgivable. This is totally different. The setting, the relationship ... everything.

It's the thin end of the wedge, I agree. But the point is, it was said in jest, in a jokey, 'no-harm-done' kinda way, just like the OP describes his situation. They were shocked that it offended me and couldn't see that the remark was derogatory as it was only a bit of fun etc...

You never can tell how other people are going to interpret things, especially if said things refer to race, gender, religion/other emotive subjects (and to be honest, who the f*** is anyone else to say that a person shouldn't be offended by something?)

Best to just keep it zipped if you want to keep your friends and your job, as the OP has discovered.

And I'm female by the way with a male partner, so no wife.

Sambucus_Nigra

fedupnow wrote: »

And we come the full circle. Was calling her 'black' racist? And was claiming not to take orders off a woman (when he does every working shift) sexist?

I think no. I even think they thought 'no' which is why they added on the lie about the op not wanting to take orders off the boss because he was black.

Maybe the boss felt it easier to let the op go than the two offendees, especially if the female boss is in the same clique. And he's worked there under the year. All together a bit of a no-brainer, I suppose.

Yes I think calling someone 'black x' instead of calling her by the name she gave him was racist. That's what they used to do to the slaves - I can't be doing with calling you by your actual name, so I'm going to make one of my own up - in this instance how about Black Dave?

Saying 'Sorry love, I don't take orders from women,' - how can this be anything other than sexist?

Racism is even defined by wiki as 'Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.'

By ignoring the name she gave and making up his own name based on her race, and not even getting the gender correct doesn't make it wry humour or banter.

We don't know if the lady in question didn't feel offended, or whether they were crushed inside and just facing it out. The whole point of stopping this sort of behaviour is that we don't know - so refraining from it is the only option.

The OP might be just a !!!!!!, or might be a racist sexist !!!!!!. We just don't know. But the employer is well within their rights to get rid of them if this is the sort of behaviour that they are demonstrating.

zzzLazyDaisy

fedupnow wrote: »

Maybe the boss felt it easier to let the op go than the two offendees, especially if the female boss is in the same clique. And he's worked there under the year. All together a bit of a no-brainer, I suppose.

There are two very telling points in this saga.

He had worked there less than a year - yet he freely spoke to and about people he worked with, in a less than respectful manner - including his immediate manager. Forget whether this behaviour amounted to unlawful sex and/or race discrimination for the moment. He should have realised that his comments might cause offence to some people and/or they might get back to the management. And he still does not seem to see anything wrong with his behaviour. This may not be the sort of person that the company wishes to employ, and since he did not have a year's service, they were entitled to dismiss him - for any reason or no reason at all.

The second thing is that these episodes very rarely occur in isolation. If he made these remarks, and cannot see what the problem is, it is very unlikely that this is the very first time that he has made inappropriate remarks. We don't have the history, or the full facts, but people who speak to others in those terms generally make a habit of it - they consider it to be acceptable 'banter'.

In today's world - whether you like it or not - an employer cannot afford to have someone like that on the payroll, especially if the position is in a professional environment and/or interacting with customers. As someone else has said, the employee would be viewed as a 'loose canon'.

If an employer came to me with this scenario, expressing concern about an employee's conduct, my advice would be 'get rid now before employment protection kicks in' (especially f there is other background that we are not aware of).

Sorry, but that's the way of things.

LannieDuck

fedupnow wrote: »

And we come the full circle. Was calling her 'black' racist? And was claiming not to take orders off a woman (when he does every working shift) sexist?

Actually, earlier in the thread he said he no longer works for her. So when he said he "doesn't take orders from a woman", it could easily have been a pointed comment, followed by 'ha ha, just joking'. It's a bit meaningless trying to guess the intent behind the comments since he's not going to admit if he had racist/sexist intent.

He said things that fell foul of equality legislation, and was sacked for it. Although he might be able to appeal on the grounds that he wasn't allowed to present his side of the story, I don't think he would be able to defend the charges themselves.

kara7758

My tuppence worth here.

I think person he referred to as "black Dave" was subtly trying to divert him from using that term, by talking about Baa Baa Black Sheep being changed to Baa Baa Rainbow sheep and that maybe he should call her Rainbow Dave.

I assuming she was showing her dislike of the name he was calling her and not wanting to lose friendship by asking not to be called that name again.

Irrespective of all this you offended people by your words and sorry but you just have to except that. I work with someone who is a normally lovely guy, but had to pull him last week for referring to one of our colleagues as a "!!!!!". My colleague laughed. I was offended. I told him in no uncertain terms and he knows I will put in a complaint if I hear him do it again. Simple!

Shame the OP couldn't have just simply asked her her name.............

Lokolo

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Racism is even defined by wiki as 'Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior.'

How on earth is calling someone Black Dave making the group of people (black people in this case) less/more desierable or inferior?

You are basically saying if there were 2 Jamie's, one male and female, it would make me sexist to call the male on Male Jamie and the female, Female Jamie...?

Pointing out an attribute of someone doesn't make it insulting or demeaning.

Sambucus_Nigra

Lokolo wrote: »

How on earth is calling someone Black Dave making the group of people (black people in this case) less/more desierable or inferior?

You are basically saying if there were 2 Jamie's, one male and female, it would make me sexist to call the male on Male Jamie and the female, Female Jamie...?

Pointing out an attribute of someone doesn't make it insulting or demeaning.

Really? You really - honestly and truly - don't get why calling a female 'black Dave' might make them feel inferior because of their race?