So I have been sacked for racial abuse...

Matikata

Hey there guys,

I wasn't too sure where to post this, but I'm going to try here and then hopefully someone can point me in the right direction =]

I'll start with the basics;

I work at the O2 Academy in Oxford (Or did, until today, when I was sacked over the phone).

The O2 employ Showsec to take care of security within the venue (So it's Showsec I officially have a contract with).


Before Christmas 2012, around the beginning of December, after work, we were allowed to stay for drinks in the venue. We ended up having quite a few. I was chatting to this girl from America who was black, the conversation went like this (and this is after talking without knowing each others names etc);

Girl: Hey I'm Korell
Me: If I'm honest, I'm that drunk that I probably wont remember your name... Can I call you black dave instead?
*She bursts out laughing and says yes, and we continue to have a conversation about work and what we do outside of work*

A couple of weeks later, it's the staff christmas party (on the 16th Dec), and at some point Korell comes up to me;

Korell: Hey do you remember me?!
Me: uhh...
Korell: I'm black dave!
Me: Oh yeah!

we have another giggle about it, and she mentions something about Baa Baa Blacksheep being banned from schools and it's changed to Baa Baa Rainbow sheep, so we should be politically correct and call her Rainbow Dave from now on. We have a laugh then part ways to our own friends etc.

This was around midnight - 1am. Fast forward to around 8am, there is myself and four others sat in one of the dressing rooms of the venue, and there is one female, who I've met once before tonight, but bumped into earlier in the night and had a chat and a laugh with. She says:

Girl: Mate go get me a drink
Me: Sorry love, I don't take orders from women

Then that was it. I then went and got drinks for everyone anyway ha.

One of the guys, every time I said anything, would say "God why are you talking?" and be a bit of a !!!!! to me, then starts calling me racist and sexist. Apparently he over head the conversation me and Korell had earlier in the evening. A few moments later, him and one of the other guys get up and restrain me, drag me across the venue and throw me into the door, then push me through it and close the door. I then go back to the entrance and the cleaning people let me back in because I'm still wearing my work uniform, to go and get my things from the staff room to make my way home. Simon then follows me out, and then grips me up against the staffroom door saying some stuff about how I should leave etc.

Being thrown into the door is probably on CCTV, and being gripped up against the staff room is probably on CCTV. Also, the two guys that threw me out were doing lines of cocain on the table before they took me out.

I disregard everything as everyone has been drinking for like, 8 or 9 hours and you know, people do silly things when they're drunk.

So around the 15th of January I get a call from my boss saying that I've been suspended from work due to a complaint being made about me being racist, and that I can't come back to work until statements are taken and it's all resolved. I say OK.

Today (well yesterday, the 23rd) I get a call from my boss saying that I'm sacked from work because of the offensive and racist comment I made about "Black Dave" and for being sexist and thinking I'm above women with the comment I made to the girl about not taking orders from women.

He explains to me that Simon and Ian both wrote statements about how I was racially offensive to Korell, and sexist to the other girl, and that I apparently said I didn't like taking orders from my boss because he's black (he's also the one who's been phoning me up about everything).

The last point is absolute BS. I get on very well with my boss, and I'm not racist anyway. In fact I said to Simon when he gripped me up against the staffroom door that my grandad is polish, my girlfriend is dutch and my best friend is jamaican.

Anyway, I'm sorry if this doesn't make alot of sense, I'm just trying to provide all the details I can in hopes that someone can help me.

I haven't been asked for a statement, neither has Korell. I haven't mentioned the "assault" I guess you would call it, by Simon and Ian or mentioned the CCTV in case it "goes missing".

So there we have it, in a nut shell, a private conversation between myself and a friend after hours, was found offensive by a random white guy, who then complained and had me sacked because I was offensive to my friend, and neither I nor my friend have been interviewed or been asked to give statements (I'm not even sure Korell knows about it).


What should I do? Because it's such a random and messed up thing, I really don't have the foggiest where to start.

Part of me wants to try and press charges against Simon for handling me and gripping me up, if the CCTV is still there, another part of me wants to complain to the manager of that particular O2 about not asking me for a statement or not getting any warning and let him know that Simon and Ian were doing lines of coke etc, another part of me wants to take it higher, but I really don't know where or what to do.

I know I might sound kinda childish about grassing them up, but at the end of the day, they've cost me a job when I've done nothing to them.

If anyone could give me any help whatsoever, I'd be so grateful!

Cheers =]

Matti

armchairexpert

You called a complete stranger "Black Dave", and you told another woman "sorry love I don't take orders from women" and you think referring to women as "females" is appropriate, and your defence is but my best friend is Jamaican so I can't be racist?

You absolutely are entitled to a right of reply. You can't be sacked because someone said something and you haven't been given any chance to respond to that allegation. But, to be honest, I am assuming that the reason the 'investigation' went the way it did is because you are racist, and sexist, and your 'hilarious' comments contribute to a hostile workplace and have done for a lot longer than this one occasion.

honey10

^^ sorry, but I agree

Matikata

Hey there! Thankyou for the reply =]

The girl that I called black dave was someone I've known and worked with for a while, we just never introduced ourselves. But she also didn't find it offensive (it was said under influence, and I did say it in jest and to be funny, which she found funny).

I'm not using my best friend as an excuse to "be racist" as you put it, the majority of my friends are black (funnily enough, I'm usually the only white guy when we hang out). I took a chance at having some friendly banter with a work mate, but it was someone else that was offended.

I don't want to give the wrong impression, it's not something I do regularly or anything haha.

Also, I'm usually the quiet introvert type, I don't make a habit of being loud or "hilarious" in front of anyone, it was a one on one conversation that ended up being a bit flirtatious and jokey.

In regards to the not taking orders from women comment, I worked with her once, and she was my boss and ordered me around. In a nice way though, it's not like we don't get on or anything. So it was more of a jest at the fact that it's meant to be ironic, we had been fine throughout the night, I offered to get her drinks now and again, and I went and got her a drink after I said that comment anyway haha!

It's more the fact that because I do a radio show monday to saturday, I can't really have a full time day job, so I have to work evenings, and security just happens to be what I do (and at £11 an hour, it's not bad!).

I'm a 5'11 average size athlete, not a giant brute or anything, I rely on speaking to people in order to calm them down from fighting or being aggressive.

I actually also bumped into Ian one night when I was out and about and apologised to him for any offence I caused him, and he accepted my apology and said "we all had a bit too much to drink, don't worry about it", and now he's gone and made a statement against me. Bit of a slap in the face... But hey ho...

Even so, no warnings, no statements from me or the person involved, a lie was made up that I don't like my boss and I haven't had a chance to defend myself from any of it.

What would you do?

I do appreciate your replies by the way.

EDIT; I'm used to referring to women as "females" purely because that's the word we have to use at work to describe women. Force of habit haha.

Caroline_a

Firstly I would take the details ie names off your post. The internet doesnt need to know that!

I think you need to see if you can contact both women and ask if they would be prepared to make a statement that both comments were made in jest and were private jokes within private conversations between the two of you.

Then write and ask for an appeal against the decision to your boss.

I guess the moral of the story is don't have too much to drink or socialise within a work environment. Good luck - I think you might need it in this situation.

Evilm

Matikata wrote: »

Hey there! Thankyou for the reply =]

The girl that I called black dave was someone I've known and worked with for a while, we just never introduced ourselves. But she also didn't find it offensive (it was said under influence, and I did say it in jest and to be funny, which she found funny).

I'm not using my best friend as an excuse to "be racist" as you put it, the majority of my friends are black (funnily enough, I'm usually the only white guy when we hang out). I took a chance at having some friendly banter with a work mate, but it was someone else that was offended.

Sorry, not a defense in my book. We have co-workers having private conversations at work that we overhear without trying to and it does contribute to a bad working environment even if the person its aimed at takes it purely as fun. Shouldn't be said at all no matter if you think its hilarious.

However I have one question: Were these comments IN work or OUT of work? If the comments were out of work they *might* make me a little uneasy but I'd personally put it to one side and ignore it.

Ronaldo_Mconaldo

I think you need to go and find a calendar as a matter of urgency. Find that calendar and don't bother looking at the date or the month, no time for that. Get that calendar and have a good long look at what year it says on it, I'm pretty sure you'll find that the year will say that it's 2013. It's not the 1970s or 1980s but the year 2013. The excuse that you're not racist "cos you've got loads of black mates" doesn't hold up any more. Also the "I don't take orders from women", that' kind of attitude will get you far in life, good work.

Finally after you have acknowledged the year after finding that calendar go and phone your parents and ask them about your upbringing. Who the hell has a conversation like that inane conversation where you decided to drunkenly name someone "black Dave"? Surely some tiny alarm bells should have been ringing somewhere.

dandelionclock30

Your going to have to miss these off your C.V and move on. In future dont be drinking and making remarks that people will find offensive.
Also you need to understand that people at work are not friends, they are work colleagues end of story.

Slinky

My understanding is that you don't have to be the victim of a racist comment to be offended by it.

You were lucky the person you called a name didn't say that she took offence. How were you to know she wouldn't.

Somebody else has quite rightly pulled you up on this and I think you're on a hiding to nothing trying to justify it.

If the radio station find out about your sacking for racist comments, I wouldn't be surprised if your days there are numbered also. I'm guessing you would be freelance there as most presenters are, it'll be pretty easy not to renew your contract.

[Deleted User]

Ronaldo_Mconaldo wrote: »

I think you need to go and find a calendar as a matter of urgency. Find that calendar and don't bother looking at the date or the month, no time for that. Get that calendar and have a good long look at what year it says on it, I'm pretty sure you'll find that the year will say that it's 2013. It's not the 1970s or 1980s but the year 2013. The excuse that you're not racist "cos you've got loads of black mates" doesn't hold up any more. Also the "I don't take orders from women", that' kind of attitude will get you far in life, good work.

Finally after you have acknowledged the year after finding that calendar go and phone your parents and ask them about your upbringing. Who the hell has a conversation like that inane conversation where you decided to drunkenly name someone "black Dave"? Surely some tiny alarm bells should have been ringing somewhere.

It's called "banter"

You should hear what is said in jest in my wife's A&E department

I'm of a firm opinion that the only people that should complain about being 'racially abused' are those that are abused - you should be getting upset on behalf of other people. If the girl with the 1970s nickname didn't like it.. it was up to her to complain; not other people

With the complete story though, it's probably best to find somewhere else to work. Then avoid stupid nicknames

Matikata

OK so firstly, my radio station does know about it, the majority of presenters are black, and the programme manager is black (the big boss) and they think it's absurd.

Secondly, all the other bouncers, black and white and mixed etc, think it's stupid that everyone is being over sensitive about it.

Thirdly, these comments were made out of work.

Fourth, I have been sacked for Racial Abuse towards the girl. I personally don't see "Black Dave" as a derogatory term for a black person in the same way "!!!!!!" would be, nor do I see her taking any offence or finding it "abusive".

Abusive - Definition

Extremely offensive and insulting.
Engaging in or characterized by habitual violence and cruelty


She wasn't offended or insulted, so that rules that out, the second point doesn't really apply here.

A reason I know she didn't take it offensively is because of the way we talked to each other during the party, she looked genuinely happy and having a good time, and also our good working relationship during work hours after it all happened.

I am 100% certain that she would happily write a statement saying she wasn't offended etc.

The girl from the other part of the story, herself and the other two guys are kinda in a clique so to speak, she's unlikely to talk against them after they have made the statements.