So I have been sacked for racial abuse...

real1314

I think there are 2 fundamental issues here; and the muddling of these 2 issues causes problems :-

1. That a complaint can be constituted on the basis of "feeling offended" without any real critical evaluation of whether that offence has any rational basis.
This gives free reign for almost anyone to make a complaint on wafer thin issues that many people would feel trivialise truly offensive behaviour.

I think this is a nonsense. I can tell a managment speak spouting idiot discussing "helicopter views of the big picture to inform forward thinking strategies" to use "plain english", but there is potential for anyone to claim that this is inherently racist.

This is fundamentally wrong as it takes no account of context, intent or reasonable interpretation.

2. That using a "description" that is factually accurate cannot be offensive (or indeed shouldn't be unlawful) as using other descriptions (ginger) is not. funnily enough, non of the people who have raised this view have given an example of using this type of action with people of similar characterisitcs to themselves:-
Would a white man refer to "white dave"? or is it just "black dave"?
And whilst "ginger dave" might not be unlawful, it may well still be offensive, just as "fat dave" might be to the recipient.
I suppose those who expound this view would not object to being called "t**t dave" every single day of their lives?

Clearly i think this opinion is inherently wrong.

So, I have a divided opinion. But, based on the story, I suspect that the complaints were not based on anything more than desire to see someone lose thier job.

:cool:

Nine_Lives

TopQuark wrote: »

Some people are suggesting that it's ridiculous to be offended by remarks made to another person.

I'm guessing these same people wouldn't be bothered in the slightest then, if someone referred to their mother as a prozzie or called their wife a minger?

My OH is French and was once hilariously referred to as a 'cheese-eating surrender monkey'. OH had no idea what this meant. I replied to the speaker that we didn't usually keep company with 'trigger-happy rednecks', so the occasion was new for us. Interestingly enough, he didn't seem to see the humour in my response. Funny that eh?

I'm sure neither of you went running telling tales though & both got on with your lives, despite not being too impressed with what the other said??

jayII

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

I must say, this thread has really opened my eyes to how blind and obtuse some people can be. I grew up with my cousin who is black. We lived in small, working class, town and we experienced a lot of blinkered, bigotted, prejudice, of the sort that has been spouted on this thread.

That was before the days of the Race Relations Act, and the current public awareness of racism and the high profile anti-discrimination laws.

I honestly didn't realise that such throwbacks to that earlier era still existed!

I'm constantly taken aback by the amount of discrimination that still exists. I'm not so much surprised by it, as disappointed that nothing has changed since the last time I heard or read similar comments.

I have the impression that the amount of racial discrimination around has become worse, (i.e. increased,) over the last few years, particularly since the recession has taken hold.

But I'm not sure if that's real or is just my personal perception.

Sambucus_Nigra

phill99 wrote: »

I'm not putting anyone down. I'm telling the truth.

Well aren't you a clever boy.

What I would or wouldn't do is nothing to do with this thread. Please try to keep on topic.

Nine_Lives

I really don't see how so many are so shocked by racism that still goes on today. It happens & it always will happen - FACT!

It's like in football. All this talk of kick racism out & then the people who are the face of it are guilty of it too. It doesn't surprise me at all, not one bit. Maybe i'm more of a realist & these people who are shocked by it don't like realism, they prefer to dream. Who knows.

I can sit here & say i'm not racist or i am racist, but either would be irrelevant because people will already have their views.

I'm not surprised by the racism that goes on, not at all. What does surprise me is the number of people who seem to have their eyes shut.

Jamopy

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Oh - you were just attention seeking?

I see.

I was trying to engage you in debate, but you copped out. It's ok i understand.

Jamopy

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

As it happens, my career was as a solicitor in employment law - specialising in discrimination law. So yes, I have a lot of experience of racism and other 'ism's as they occur in the world of employment.

But in any event, I don't understand your need to 'compete'.

The point is racism of any description is unacceptable, and where it rears its head in the workplace, employers can - and should - uphold the principles if the Equality Act, and deal with it quickly and effectively.

Given your experience of racism and the potential consequences if it is allowed to go un-hindered, I expect you would agree with that?

It's nothing to do with competing. You insinuated that those disagreeing with you - a group which includes me - are blind and obtuse, and then linked that into a personal story about your childhood. Presumably as some sort of validation. I have my own stories and my own experiences and am far from blind.

Bringing it back on subject, the point is that simply calling someone black is not racist. I find the way PC is attempting to control the very language we use to be far more odious and questionable than simply calling someone black.

jayII

Nine_Lives wrote: »

I really don't see how so many are so shocked by racism that still goes on today. It happens & it always will happen - FACT!

It's like in football. All this talk of kick racism out & then the people who are the face of it are guilty of it too. It doesn't surprise me at all, not one bit. Maybe i'm more of a realist & these people who are shocked by it don't like realism, they prefer to dream. Who knows.

I can sit here & say i'm not racist or i am racist, but either would be irrelevant because people will already have their views.

I'm not surprised by the racism that goes on, not at all. What does surprise me is the number of people who seem to have their eyes shut.

It may have more to do with natural human optimism than lack of realism. That is certainly the case with me: I know that discrimination of every kind is alive and kicking in our society, and always will be.

But, I still hope that it will gradually reduce. I am well aware that my hope is probably a pipe dream. But hey, I'm an optimist and I will always hope for the best.

Sambucus_Nigra

Jamopy wrote: »

I was trying to engage you in debate, but you copped out. It's ok i understand.

No you weren't. You were trying to look big and clever.





You weren't that either.

Uncertain

Jamopy wrote: »

I find the way PC is attempting to control the very language we use to be far more odious and questionable than simply calling someone black.

You may well do and I suspect plenty of people would agree with you.

However, that is irrelevant. This thread was about how this type of behaviour is actually treated in an employment law context, not about how you think it should be treated.