PIP debate-live now

JS477

Is there a transcript of this whole debate at Westminster Hall. All I can find is a debate re the RNIB.

Richie-from-the-Boro

JS477 wrote: »

Is there a transcript of this whole debate at Westminster Hall. All I can find is a debate re the RNIB.

Yes...................

JS477

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Yes...................

Thatnks. I must have misunderstood the email alert.

Incidentally can someone unravel what Lord Fraud has said here with reagrd the decision to reduce the walking distance from 50m to 20m?

He said~:-
"The changes we have made to the moving around activity in the personal independence payment assessment are a direct result of the consultations we carried out and the concerns people raised about the previous activity being unclear.

Within this activity we have always intended to differentiate within the group of people who can move less than 50 metres, ensuring that support is focused on those whose mobility is most limited.

Our previous approach was to differentiate by the types of aids and appliances an individual used. In the final version we have differentiated by distance, which we feel is clearer. We have not tightened the activity, and the policy intent remains the same. Our analysis shows that the number of individuals who are likely to score 12 points in this activity will remain broadly the same after this change."

Does the last bit mean that if you now get the Higher Rate Mobility of DLA then you probably get the 12points of PIP?

I though the whole point of PIP was to throw 20% of people off DLA!

rogerblack

JS477 wrote: »

Does the last bit mean that if you now get the Higher Rate Mobility of DLA then you probably get the 12points of PIP?

NO

It means that the previous wording in the last variation of the descriptors for PIP and this version result in about the same number of people qualifying.

I am also extremely unsure that this is not using the same slight-of-hand whereby it's only counting people up to 2015, in this latter number of people.
If this is true, it would approximately double the numbers removed from HRM.

JS477

rogerblack wrote: »

NO

It means that the previous wording in the last variation of the descriptors for PIP and this version result in about the same number of people qualifying.

Is that a NO then Roger.

If you can explain what Fraud means when he states "Our analysis shows that the number of individuals who are likely to score 12 points in this activity will remain broadly the same after this change."

When the previous descriptors were:-

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant.

&

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by another person or a motorised device.

Or to put it another way, if I would have qualified under the

'Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant.' previous descriptor

how would I qualify under the

'Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.' amended descriptor?


Thanks

rogerblack

JS477 wrote: »

'Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant.' previous descriptor

how would I qualify under the

'Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.' amended descriptor?


Thanks

If you could stand and move 19 meters, then you would qualify under both.

Those who would not qualify under the new descriptor are those who can stand and walk over 20 meters even using aids.

dori2o

rogerblack wrote: »

If you could stand and move 19 meters, then you would qualify under both.

Those who would not qualify under the new descriptor are those who can stand and walk over 20 meters even using aids.

WE still have no idea how being in pain/discomfort etc is taken into account with this.

Is there any indication when this issue will be identified and updated?

OR

Will the regulations and case law from previous state benefits be carried forwards to PIP.

For example, I force myself to walk every step I take. I do this because I am in pain even before I start walking. Under DLA this was recognised as being unable to walk as at no point am I not sufferring from severe pain or discomfort.

I have to walk (with the aid of a walking stick) 50m or so to get from the car to the lift at work, and then from the lift to my desk. There is no other way of doing it, I can't float unfortunately.

I'd be interested in your views on this matter Roger.

Richie-from-the-Boro

dori2o wrote: »

I am the same. People who don't suffer from debilitating conditions have no idea how simple things like these make such a massive difference to being able to manage better.

I am sure that the disabled bus pass requires the applicant to be in receipt of DLA, but other have said I am wrong.

Hiya dori2o,

The bus pass has two components (1) The statutory English National Concessionary Travel Scheme [ENCTS] and (2) Your Local Borough Councils discretionary enhancement, all a local Authority's may enhance the statutory concessionary travel scheme, on journeys using public transport, within its own boundaries or to other places within the vicinity of their boundaries. This is the way its been since the middle 80's, its defiantly the same 2013-2014, and as far as I'm aware its not part of the welfare reforms. Permits issued by the Scottish, Welsh, or any other authority are not valid for use in the statutory ENCTS.

The blue badge criteria has as you know already changed to (1) with & (2) without further assessment, which is much the same as the old rules, just a much more regulated and evidenced approach, having a badge previously does not provide this guarantee.

What may change under the PIP welfare reforms is :

- to establish a legislative link between Blue Badge eligibility and those who score eight or more points on the moving around activity within PIP, or ;
- establish a legislative link between Blue Badge eligibility and the enhanced mobility component of PIP, or ;
- no legislative link at all between eligibility for a Blue Badge and eligibility to PIP at al

As far as I'm aware no firm actions have been taken by the dFt on this - I suspect apart from legislation little will change from the 2013 criteria.

FAQ's here

CTcelt1988

rogerblack wrote: »

If you could stand and move 19 meters, then you would qualify under both.

Those who would not qualify under the new descriptor are those who can stand and walk over 20 meters even using aids.

Reading the PIP guidelines http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-assessment-guide. There is a example of someone who can walk with a stick up to 100m but after that can only walk short steps of 20m. He is marked down as can only stand and walk 20m and gets enhanced rate. It comes down to beng able to walk in a repeatly and timely manner.

JS477

CTcelt1988 wrote: »

Reading the PIP guidelines http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-assessment-guide. There is a example of someone who can walk with a stick up to 100m but after that can only walk short steps of 20m. He is marked down as can only stand and walk 20m and gets enhanced rate. It comes down to beng able to walk in a repeatly and timely manner.

That's what was puzzling me! If the descriptor states between 1m and 20m then uses an example of a man who can initially manage 100m being given the enhanced rate confused the hell out of me, and still does!

What if you can manage with a stick 200m then after mange <20m??

Or what if you can manage 100m with a stick then after a period of rest have to go into a wheelchair to continue ?