PIP debate-live now

satarical

Parva wrote: »

Couldn't agree more Jen, some of the struggles I've had due to inconsiderate people, hobbling around the car on one leg is no fun at all! On a lighter note I got the DWP letter this morning informing me that after having viewed my ESA50 they've put me into the support group (was in WRAG prior). And for the benefit of Andy, no, I didn't exaggerate anything, I have no need to do so.

Ah, but did you do their job for them by supplying evidence that they should collect themselves? Bet you did!

Effectively anybody that helps ATOS to do their job, yes of course you are more likely to get the right result, is helping ATOS to cover up their own inabilities so that they can proclaim "didn't we do well".

I'm a great believer in 'give them enough rope' - why should we, the claimants, help them out of the hole that they are in?

dori2o

satarical wrote: »

What is the point in taking it then and I would sack your Pain clinic consultant for not being able to do their job!

Which one, this one, one one before or the one before.

I take it because I cannot function at all without it.

I get approx 4 or 5% relief with the meds I am on now. The best I have had. So if I had a score of 9 without meds on the chart, that score would be 8.55 with them at best. If the pain I have is 9.5 without, then the pain I have with them is 9.025.

Contrary to your twisted belief, pain killers do not remove the majority of pain in everyone. For some people it is not that simple I am afraid. Less than 30% of people who take medication for chronic pain gain more than 40% relief.

Plus I metabolise opiates very quickly so need higher and higher doses to keep the relief I get. The problem with this is the awful side effects.

What else is the pain Dr supposed to do. between the 3 of them I have tried everything there is to try that the NHS will sanction. I have asked for things such as Sativex off licence but my NHS trust will not do it.

rogerblack

dori2o wrote: »

Contrary to your twisted belief, pain killers do not remove the majority of pain in everyone. For some people it is not that simple I am afraid. Less than 30% of people who take medication for chronic pain gain more than 40% relief.

Some unfortunates even get more pain when they take morphine.,

Parva

satarical wrote: »

Ah, but did you do their job for them by supplying evidence that they should collect themselves? Bet you did!

Effectively anybody that helps ATOS to do their job, yes of course you are more likely to get the right result, is helping ATOS to cover up their own inabilities so that they can proclaim "didn't we do well".

I'm a great believer in 'give them enough rope' - why should we, the claimants, help them out of the hole that they are in?

The only thing I supplied was my own words about the effects my disabilities have on me along with details of my doctor and neuro surgeon. I supplied no actual medical evidence whatsoever to support my claim. I can only assume that they did what they are contracted to do and chased up the medical professionals involved in my care. In fact I even typed out the application on my PC using the downloadable ESA50 pdf which I printed off and sent.

Also to add further, I really do not understand your mentality regarding providing extra evidence (which as stated I did not). Why would anyone not provide evidence if they can get it that could effectively get them put into either the WRAG (if they were capable) or the support group without the extra stress of medicals, appeals, tribunals? I doubt anybody actually likes ATOS but I fail to understand people that wish to do anything and everything possible to prolong the process when it's quite possibly avoidable.

satarical

Parva wrote: »

The only thing I supplied was my own words about the effects my disabilities have on me along with details of my doctor and neuro surgeon. I supplied no actual medical evidence whatsoever to support my claim. I can only assume that they did what they are contracted to do and chased up the medical professionals involved in my care. In fact I even typed out the application on my PC using the downloadable ESA50 pdf which I printed off and sent.

Also to add further, I really do not understand your mentality regarding providing extra evidence (which as stated I did not). Why would anyone not provide evidence if they can get it that could effectively get them put into either the WRAG (if they were capable) or the support group without the extra stress of medicals, appeals, tribunals? I doubt anybody actually likes ATOS but I fail to understand people that wish to do anything and everything possible to prolong the process when it's quite possibly avoidable.

Submitting the evidence I hold is not required to be sent to ATOS. They may ask for it, but there is no legal requirement on me to submit it.

I have also blocked their ability to write for the evidence by not disclosing who my GP is or any of my consultants.So they will have to write to me for the info if they want it.

Stress?? No not really, I quite enjoy slating ATOS to my MP. The assessment holds no fear for me, I quite enjoy turning the whole thing into a shambles. The assessor I saw last time, by the time I had finished with him, probably didn't have a clue what he was doing. As an example he asked me how I got to the assessment, I answered by car... then I waited until he finished and as he started to ask another question I told him ..that my wife drove and that it took 30 mins and we had to stop three times as I was in pain. Every time he asked a question I gave a simple answer followed by a qualification of that answer after he asked the next question.

When it came to the physical assessment I told him that I couldn't take off my heavy overcoat and needed help. I asked him to help me and he refused. I then told him that it was stalemate then as he had refused for my wife to come in with me. To that he became a little shirty and said he hadn't then I said he had - don't you remember?

I intended it to go to a Tribunal but i came unstuck. When I sent the evidence in to the TS a week before the hearing, I didn't realise that the DWP had people sifting through the cases. It never reached court they awarded me the Support Group for 3 years from 0 points. So I never got the chance to have my day in court.

This time I intend to - I will take the evidence to court with me.

You don't lose any money, you get it all backdated - mine came through in May 2011 after I made the claim back in sept 09.

Obviously in all of this my MP was involved all of the way and to say the least he wasn't very happy with the system and how I was treated.

All in all I quite enjoy causing chaos with ATOS and the DWP. More so when the MP contacts them and they have to explain to him how someone so ill can be found fit for work. I'm quite lucky really as I have known my MP for a good number of years and he personally knows of my health problems.

Parva

satarical wrote: »

Stress?? No not really, I quite enjoy slating ATOS to my MP. The assessment holds no fear for me, I quite enjoy turning the whole thing into a shambles. The assessor I saw last time, by the time I had finished with him, probably didn't have a clue what he was doing. As an example he asked me how I got to the assessment, I answered by car... then I waited until he finished and as he started to ask another question I told him ..that my wife drove and that it took 30 mins and we had to stop three times as I was in pain. Every time he asked a question I gave a simple answer followed by a qualification of that answer after he asked the next question.

This is all very well if you have the mentality and moreover the physical ability to just go challenging everything in life. Regardless of your alleged 'pain' at having to go to this assessment there are others that are bedridden or who would find it incredibly difficult to get to such an appointment, and that's before we even think about the stress involved in doing so. I myself have been out ONCE in the last month, not through choice but through a combination of weather and fitness. Do I enjoy being housebound, no I do not! By providing an accurate statement of my current situation I have avoided the need to attend a medical and got placed into the support group. Had I just signed the form and returned with virtually nothing on it I would be assured of a day out at the expense of a family member needing to take a day off work, not to mention the issues I actually have getting there!

You don't lose any money, you get it all backdated - mine came through in May 2011 after I made the claim back in sept 09.

That's great, if you can afford to live on the basic assessment rate. Sadly, in the real world disabled people cannot.

I'm quite lucky really as I have known my MP for a good number of years and he personally knows of my health problems.

Oh I'm quite sure he knows you very well.

I found your Youtube blog.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXUN2ITkCp8

And then watch this one after - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMy2NrmjiYg



Yeah yeah, may not be you Andy given your whines re. retirement and stuff but he's so damned close to your personality that I have to wonder.....

dori2o

rogerblack wrote: »

Some unfortunates even get more pain when they take morphine.,

Very true.

Unfortunately some don't believe it is possible and think everyone is made the same way, reacts the same way to medications. Fortunately most people are intelligent enough to know that isn't the case.

satarical

Parva wrote: »

By providing an accurate statement of my current situation I have avoided the need to attend a medical and got placed into the support group. Had I just signed the form and returned with virtually nothing on it I would be assured of a day out at the expense of a family member needing to take a day off work, not to mention the issues I actually have getting there!

That's great, if you can afford to live on the basic assessment rate. Sadly, in the real world disabled people cannot.

I have never said that I had not 'provided an accurate statement of my current situation'.

Of course I have, very accurate with examples. Not to do so would be very foolish given that the ESA50 will be tendered in evidence by the DWP at the tribunal hearing.
What I do expect is that ATOS comply with the regulations. It is a simple enough matter to understand. They are required to decide initially if I need to have a F2F assessment. To carry that function out, they must use the ESA50, and should they feel that further evidence is needed, issue an ESA113 to the GP. They are also charged with gathering other evidence in order that they can make a balanced and factually based decision.

Absolutely nowhere does it state that the claimant is required to submit any evidence whatsoever. Obviously what ATOS would like to happen is that the claimant is put in that much fear that they will do everything for them. It saves time and effort on the part of ATOS and will probably give a more accurate result. But the poor claimant has had to do the work that ATOS are charged to do in order to get there THEN ATOS argue that they are now getting things right - oh yes at the expense of the claimant doing their job for them!

As for living on the 'basic assessment rate' I don't agree.
That level of benefit is just the same as the 'normal rate' given to all JSA claimants - they manage quite well on it.

Yes illness does cost more, but so does looking for a job!

Parva

satarical wrote: »

I have never said that I had not 'provided an accurate statement of my current situation'.

Just to clarify, I wasn't accusing you of supplying anything false, rather you just supplied little or nothing, instead of the full account of my own situation that I supplied.

As for living on the 'basic assessment rate' I don't agree.
That level of benefit is just the same as the 'normal rate' given to all JSA claimants - they manage quite well on it.

Do you really believe this? Nevermind, even I can't be bothered with this much trolling.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Draft PIP claim forms, standard letters and other resources :

- forms are here

- standard letters (notifications) are here

- individuals check how Personal Independence Payment affects you tool, here

- 'organisational’ - ‘toolkit here