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Immigrants & Benefits
Comments
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vivatifosi wrote: »People who migrate economically should be making a light footprint on their host country.
I agree.
But a Polish, German or French citizen is not any different to a Scots, Welsh or English citizen.
We are all European and all have equal rights in every part of Europe.They should only be able to claim benefits after a qualifying period and not be able to claim social housing.
You could say much the same thing about UK born benefits scroungers, who of course are the real problem, not immigrants who claim at much lower rates than the native born do.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »The answer of course would be to make obtaining benefits more arduous and rigorous for everyone, including immigrants, in order to cut out a lot of fraud, waste, and scrounging. In the unlikely event that the government had the courage to take this course of action, we can be sure that the LibDems would never let them.
Sounds like a recipef or more employment to do the checking and administration. Depends when the cost.exceeds what you are saving."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Sounds like a recipef or more employment to do the checking and administration. Depends when the cost.exceeds what you are saving.
I would imagine that reducing the benefits paid to the really workshy, know-their-rights scroungers down to subsistence level would more than cover the cost of bringing the ones who do not want to exist as parasites ad infinitum back into the land of the living.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »I would imagine that reducing the benefits paid to the really workshy, know-their-rights scroungers down to subsistence level would more than cover the cost of bringing the ones who do not want to exist as parasites ad infinitum back into the land of the living.
Just a thought should the "the really workshy, know-their-rights scroungers" be coerced back into the market for work what happens to those who they displace, or jump in front of, who can't get those jobs and are pushed into welfare?We might cycle "them" in and out of work but will it actually save moneyunless the economy recovers, real jobs are created and unemployment can fall? Is unemployment falling much that likely?
More so with open EU immigration continuing to pour in.
"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »)
Just a thought should the "the really workshy, know-their-rights scroungers" be coerced back into the market for work what happens to those who they displace, or jump in front of, who can't get those jobs and are pushed into welfare?We might cycle "them" in and out of work but will it actually save moneyunless the economy recovers, real jobs are created and unemployment can fall? Is unemployment falling much that likely?
More so with open EU immigration continuing to pour in.
I think that's a fair comment, but a big part depends on where you are. In Hertfordshire, we're less than 1% above structural unemployment anyway, Hamish has said that there's a problem in Aberdeen. So in some parts of the country it is already easier to get a job. Though if I was somewhere with say a 7-10% unemployment rate, I'd definitely be worried about your PoV becoming the local reality.Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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grizzly1911 wrote: ») Is unemployment falling much that likely?
More so with open EU immigration continuing to pour in.
:wall::wall::wall::wall:
How is it possible that you've read this thread and still think EU immigrants take jobs away from british born people?
Seriously???
Despite all the evidence to the contrary, that EU immigrants create more jobs than they take, that they increase average pay for 95% of the native born, that they increase the size of the economy and almost certainly GDP per head as well, and that unemployment would have been higher in this recession if it wasnt for all the immigration over the last decade....
How?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Despite all the evidence to the contrary, that EU immigrants create more jobs than they take, that they increase average pay for 95% of the native born, that they increase the size of the economy and almost certainly GDP per head as well, and that unemployment would have been higher in this recession if it wasnt for all the immigration over the last decade....
But Hamish, even fullfact.org concedes that the majority of new jobs created in this country have gone to immigrants over the time period measured:
http://fullfact.org/factchecks/frank_field_new_jobs_immigrants_welfare-2782Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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vivatifosi wrote: »But Hamish, even fullfact.org concedes that the majority of new jobs created in this country have gone to immigrants over the time period measured:
http://fullfact.org/factchecks/frank_field_new_jobs_immigrants_welfare-2782
From post 192....
There is no link between rising immigration and rising unemployment, independent economists have found – contradicting persistent claims from anti-immigration activists and politicians that an influx of foreign nationals into the UK in recent years has led to more British-born workers on the dole.
The respected National Institute of Economic and Social Research found that there was "no association" between higher immigration and joblessness – even at times of recession or low growth of the sort that Britain is experiencing at the moment.
In fact, the Institute's researchers suggested that the opposite might be the case and that immigration acts as an economic stimulus, pushing total employment levels higher and dole claimant numbers lower than they would otherwise have been.
"Perhaps surprisingly," their economists said, "the interaction between migrant inflows and GDP emerges as positive, indicating that during periods of lower growth, migrant inflows are associated with ... slower [dole] claimant growth than would otherwise have occurred.
I've bolded the last paragraph because it's important.
Immigrants don't just create new jobs for themselves, the native born benefit from the increase in economic activity as well.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
vivatifosi wrote: »I think that's a fair comment, but a big part depends on where you are. In Hertfordshire, we're less than 1% above structural unemployment anyway, Hamish has said that there's a problem in Aberdeen. So in some parts of the country it is already easier to get a job. Though if I was somewhere with say a 7-10% unemployment rate, I'd definitely be worried about your PoV becoming the local reality.
Isn't it the concentrated hot pots that are the problem though?
Our leafy shires are not really the issue."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »:wall::wall::wall::wall:
How is it possible that you've read this thread and still think EU immigrants take jobs away from british born people?
Seriously???
Despite all the evidence to the contrary, that EU immigrants create more jobs than they take, that they increase average pay for 95% of the native born, that they increase the size of the economy and almost certainly GDP per head as well, and that unemployment would have been higher in this recession if it wasnt for all the immigration over the last decade....
How?
You happily live in a low unemployment part of the o!!!!ry and have a problem filling jobs. From what you post you appear to live comfortably and your job, income and community are not impacted by what you espouse.
Using skilled immigrants to fill need is not a problem. using limited numbers of lower skilled immigrants to fill identified shortages isn't a problem.
I personally am far from convinced that mass open door open door immigration doesn't impact the local workforce. I am far from convinced that the benefit to the country of this type of immigration is massively beneficial. I don't believe it it is acceptable to exploit those immigrants either.
You obviously think it is the panacea for all our woes.
Many posters here don't appear convinced either.
You are entitled to your views but that doesn't make them unequivocally right."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0
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