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Immigrants & Benefits
Comments
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The self employed bit is the big get out. Nothing about making NI or any other contributions.HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Wait a minute, have we all missed the facts in all this bickering?
From the article that Viva posted....
Migrants without a job who are not a dependents of a worker or self-employed person, or are judged to be a "burden on public funds", currently fail the "right to reside" test.
"The European Commission wants to end the habitual residence test and as a result I believe we would have to pay benefits to EU migrants as and when they arrive, rather than proving that they've been here and working and have a residency," said Mr Duncan Smith
So at the moment EU citizens cannot just show up and claim benefits anyway.
So the idea of benefits tourists is presently a myth.0 -
The self employed bit is the big get out. Nothing about making NI or any other contributions.
Great.
So do you have evidence showing how big a problem this is in the UK?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Very much so.
As someone that has lived and worked in most of those countries, I can speak from first hand knowledge that there is significant differences between these countries systems.
Social safety nets and public services?
Yes, they have those systems.Hamish, would you have any objection to having a ban on all state benefits for immigrants, including housing allowance and free housing, but in return allow open access to the UK? I personally would prefer this model to ensure we get the right sort emmigrating here.
This is an example of why modifying EU membership is essential as we couldnt currently do this even if we wished to.
If you have worked in the middle east, you will be aware this deal is no different to the deal you get out there, so what would be your issue with it?
I take Paul's point that
"a ban on all state benefits for immigrants...If you have worked in the middle east, you will be aware this deal is no different to the deal you get out there
refers only to non GCC immigrants? Inter GCC immigrants have full freedom of movement and can claim the benefits of the best member state regardless of original state origin?doughnutmachine wrote: »I live in the Middle East. Out here the local police just round up the illegal immigrants and deport them. You see pictures in the paper of hundreds of people in a warehouse with plastic handcuffs on waiting for a boat home.
tbh I think that's the way it should be done.
I take it this post just relates to non GCC states and for non GCC member state nationals?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Hamish, can I ask a question?
Why do you WANT immigration so much. What do you get out of it? Obviously, it helps put pressure on house prices, but apart from that, what benefit do you get?
Or is the house price thing it?0 -
I don't care. It should not happen that a foreign national that has never contributed should get a penny from the UK taxpayer. One is too many.HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Great.
So do you have evidence showing how big a problem this is in the UK?
This goes for Brits who move abroad also.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Fixed that for you.
And fullfacts in their summary claim it does.
The notion that foreign-born people are less than half as likely to be claiming benefits as UK nationals is well founded in the available figures from the DWP and the ONS.
They indicate that around 15 per cent of UK nationals are currently claiming working age benefits, compared to six per cent of foreign nationals.
I wasn't disputing whether the figures are accurate from the data held.
I was more concerned with interpreting the figures and the reason for them.
As the comments or opinions suggest the figures don't paint the full picture..You have mainly young, fit males coming to endeavour to get work they don't have the baggage of life with them. They are prepared to move, be flexible and live in poor conditions.
Post 9
The figure for non-uk nationals should be virtually zero, isn't the whole point of mass immigration (as you point out incessantly) to benefit our economy, these percentages would suggest otherwise.
Not only that,the figures in blue are no doubt exacerbated by non foreign nationals displacing nationals from jobs.
Post 29
For example."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Why do you WANT immigration so much. What do you get out of it?
Without immigration on a mass scale, I genuinely believe our economy and future prosperity is doomed.
I've linked to numerous articles and studies explaining the importance of immigration.
The more relevant question is, why are you lot so set against it?Obviously, it helps put pressure on house prices, but apart from that, what benefit do you get?
Or is the house price thing it?
As McMickster pointed out earlier in the thread, we have hardly any immigrants up here, so it's made little if any difference to Aberdeen house prices, which have already exceeded the previous peak anyway.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Hamish, can I ask a question?
Why do you WANT immigration so much. What do you get out of it? Obviously, it helps put pressure on house prices, but apart from that, what benefit do you get?
Or is the house price thing it?
He did say that cleaners were getting rather expensive in Aberdeen and immigrants would stop wage inflation. That is whilst also insisting that immigration does not force down wages.0 -
He did say that cleaners were getting rather expensive in Aberdeen and immigrants would stop wage inflation. That is whilst also insisting that immigration does not force down wages.
I didn't say immigrants would stop wage inflation.
I said we had a shortage of employees in Aberdeen, and were having to pay overqualified people to do menial jobs, which they dont want to do.
I had a trainee manager on 24K a year cleaning toilets last week.
Do you think that was an efficient use of her time?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Without immigration on a mass scale, I genuinely believe our economy and future prosperity is doomed.
In what way?
Should be remembered that the industrial revolution was largely a British thing. We didn't have mass immigration then, and look what was achieved?
I DO understand your prosperity thing though, as I had forgotten to include the point that you want immigration to prop up the state pension as some sort of pyramid scheme, as has been discussed a myriad of times.0
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