Immigrants & Benefits

Graham_Devon

ILW wrote: »

Are these unemployed EU immigrants entitled to any benefits from the UK taxpayer?

Asked several times, he just keeps banging on that the EU countries have a safety net, and we can use them too.

He won't look at OUR benefits system compared to theirs and how wildly different it is.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

PaulF81 wrote: »

Utter BS. If I decided I was going to pitch up to the UAE without guaranteed employment, would the Emirati government dip in their pockets in the hope I could find a job that doesnt exist? Not a chance..

And yet the GCC member state citizens can and do have complete freedom of movement.

With no need to have "guaranteed employment" before moving somewhere within the GCC.

ILW

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

All EU citizens are entitled to a similar range of benefits.

Why should we deny them the same rights we have there?

And also worth noting that immigrant use of benefits is less than half the UK native use of benefits.

Surely that is only fair if benefits are harmonised. (Which would be another argument).

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Asked several times, he just keeps banging on that the EU countries have a safety net, and we can use them too.

He won't look at OUR benefits system compared to theirs and how wildly different it is.

I've already addressed this.

If you have a problem with benefits being too generous, then complain about that. Don't muddle it with immigration.

The facts are that the whole idea of "benefits tourism" is a myth.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ILW wrote: »

Surely that is only fair if benefits are harmonised. (Which would be another argument).

OK, where's your evidence of benefits tourism being a major problem?

vivatifosi

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

OK, where's your evidence of benefits tourism being a major problem?

It's a £155m problem apparently, down from initial estimates of a £2bn problem.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19569072

Duncan-Smith got this completely wrong. However Labour got the number of people moving here at the time of Eastern member state accession so both sides are as bad as each other in forecasting in this area.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Any proof of this? Only it would take a lot of those families to make up the difference in the figures.

Yes.

I've already linked to the source a dozen times or so, but once more graham just for you.

Foreign-born women fare far worse in (employment rate) comparison to UK-born women. This is particularly true for Pakistani women (who have an employment rate of 23 per cent, 50 percentage points lower than native women) and for Bangladeshi women (who have an employment rate of 19 per cent).

However in terms of European immigrants, it's a different story.

Employment Rates:
Romania & Bulgaria (94 per cent),
The A8 countries (81 per cent)
EU15 countries (76 per cent)
UK-born workers (76 per cent)

Source: The Economic and Fiscal Impacts of Immigration.
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm72/7237/7237.pdf

And Graham you'll be pleased to know it's an official UK Government document.:)

hethmar

Frankly Im terrified at the thought of the new wave of immigrants coming in. We live in a small country town, there is no work for local kids yet in the town we hear so many foreign languages now its like being abroad.

And someone asked who did the agricultural work before immigrants - it was local people, working temporarily - students here on a working holiday and young mums who could fit it in with school times and holidays. I know because I used to do it myself. Those jobs for locals disappeared because immigrants would take lower rates.

Another thing to mention - a friend of ours is a Sign Language tutor. She was regularly called upon to "translate" at police stations or ports when apparently deaf and or dumb people were unable to make statements. She was paid £40 per hour plus travel expenses. She stopped doing it as in all the times she was called out, not one of the supposed disabled persons were deaf or dumb, but had used a couple of signs someone must have told them to use to get away with the story.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

vivatifosi wrote: »

It's a £155m problem apparently, down from initial estimates of a £2bn problem.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19569072

Duncan-Smith got this completely wrong.

No, that's not quite right.

It's not a problem at all currently. This change is still being challenged.

It would be a 155m problem (tiny compared to the tens of billions generated by EU membership) instead of the 2bn first estimated, IF the change in rules goes through.

Anyway, from the article regarding EU workers currently....

Migrants without a job who are not a dependents of a worker or self-employed person, or are judged to be a "burden on public funds", currently fail the "right to reside" test.

Like I said, benefits tourism is a myth.

Graham_Devon

Just found this on the fullfacts site.

It's interesting, as it shows how and why the figures can be used from all sides.

For instance, we have a huge problem in this country with those on disability benefits, which is shown in the table. Immigrants simply don't take anywhere near the amount in benefits as the UK born and bred do, when it comes to disability benefits.

However...

When it comes to housing benefit and unemployment benefit, things change.

A2 & Other immigrants have a higher claim rate for unemployment benefit that UK born do. A8 have the same rate as UK born.

ALL immigrants have a higher level of housing benefit.

It all kind of makes sense. The UK born have a higher rate of disability benefits. I'd suggest the disabled don't generally emigrate from their countries? Just a guess. However, when it comes to unemployment and housing benefits, it appears immigrants have a higher percentage claiming.

These figures are from 2004-9.

So again, while UK born take more in benefits, the reason is disability benefits and the state pension, which all kinda makes sense. It DOES NOT suggest the UK born are taking more in unemployment benefits.

Interesting anyway, as you can see where the UK born take more and immigrants take more. I'd be interested as to what "other" is. Also wonder why immigrants take more in council tax benefits etc?