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Immigrants & Benefits
Comments
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Fullfacts also provide the following data, which I believe is more recent....
The notion that foreign-born people are less than half as likely to be claiming benefits as UK nationals is well founded in the available figures from the DWP and the ONS.
They indicate that around 15 per cent of UK nationals are currently claiming working age benefits, compared to six per cent of foreign nationals.
Which doesn't tie in with what you've just said.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »All EU citizens are entitled to a similar range of benefits.
Why should we deny them the same rights we have there?
And also worth noting that immigrant use of benefits is less than half the UK native use of benefits.
Not true. I suggest you get yourself over to Spain and try and sign on as a UK citizen.0 -
Wait a minute, have we all missed the facts in all this bickering?
From the article that Viva posted....
Migrants without a job who are not a dependents of a worker or self-employed person, or are judged to be a "burden on public funds", currently fail the "right to reside" test.
"The European Commission wants to end the habitual residence test and as a result I believe we would have to pay benefits to EU migrants as and when they arrive, rather than proving that they've been here and working and have a residency," said Mr Duncan Smith
So at the moment EU citizens cannot just show up and claim benefits anyway.
So the idea of benefits tourists is presently a myth.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Wait a minute, have we all missed the facts in all this bickering?
From the article that Viva posted....
Migrants without a job who are not a dependents of a worker or self-employed person, or are judged to be a "burden on public funds", currently fail the "right to reside" test.
"The European Commission wants to end the habitual residence test and as a result I believe we would have to pay benefits to EU migrants as and when they arrive, rather than proving that they've been here and working and have a residency," said Mr Duncan Smith
So at the moment EU citizens cannot just show up and claim benefits anyway.
So the idea of benefits tourists is presently a myth.
I take it you have forgotten what the OP was about. See post 1."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »I take it you have forgotten what the OP was about. See post 1.
So now we seem to have the answer.
From the horses mouth, so to speak.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Fullfacts also provide the following data, which I believe is more recent....
Which doesn't tie in with what you've just said.
Indeed, but as stated regarding that graph, this is based on NI numbers and ethnicity data.
This data is flawed, as the full facts site states, underneath the graph, which you decided not to post
Both are from fullfacts, so you can't ignore one, while ignoring the disclaimer for it.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Fullfacts also provide the following data, which I believe is more recent....
The notion that foreign-born people are less than half as likely to be claiming benefits as UK nationals is well founded in the available figures from the DWP and the ONS.
They indicate that around 15 per cent of UK nationals are currently claiming working age benefits, compared to six per cent of foreign nationals.
Which doesn't tie in with what you've just said.
You have already posted this. Several comments have been made giving reasons why this comparison doesn't hold water.
We know you have read them.
No point in repeating them."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Several [STRIKE]comments[/STRIKE] opinions have been made giving reasons why this comparison doesn't hold water.
Fixed that for you.
And fullfacts in their summary claim it does.
The notion that foreign-born people are less than half as likely to be claiming benefits as UK nationals is well founded in the available figures from the DWP and the ONS.
They indicate that around 15 per cent of UK nationals are currently claiming working age benefits, compared to six per cent of foreign nationals.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Is it correct that someone can arrive from another country and start selling the Big Issue and be classed as being self employed for benefits?
Actually, yes it is, according to a judge who awarded someone HB on top of the TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND she already pockets because she makes £100 a week flogging the Big Issue
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jan/17/big-issue-seller-wins-right-housing-benefit0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Fullfacts also provide the following data, which I believe is more recent....
The notion that foreign-born people are less than half as likely to be claiming benefits as UK nationals is well founded in the available figures from the DWP and the ONS.
They indicate that around 15 per cent of UK nationals are currently claiming working age benefits, compared to six per cent of foreign nationals.
Which doesn't tie in with what you've just said.
The problem with your table is that it only provides details of benefits administered by the DWP. Both child benefit and, more importantly, tax credits are omitted from these figures. Furthermore, as the Sunday Times pointed out recently, less than half of UK households are net contributors to the state.
https://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Society/article1142305.ece
The type of immigrants who come here to take low paid unskilled jobs are not amongst those earning in the 3rd quintile upwards who make a net contribution.
The right type of immigration bringing much needed skills to the UK is good. Immigrants arriving to do unskilled work are not net contributors however, and this is the immigration that we need to stem."When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson0
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