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Immigrants & Benefits
Comments
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grizzly1911 wrote: »You happily live in a low unemployment part of the o!!!!ry and have a problem filling jobs. From what you post you appear to live comfortably and your job, income and community are not impacted by what you espouse.
Using skilled immigrants to fill need is not a problem. using limited numbers of lower skilled immigrants to fill identified shortages isn't a problem.
Read the other thread. He fears for his old age if immigrants are not there to slave away.
He's stated outright, he doesn't want his life to deteriorate.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Read the other thread. He fears for his old age if immigrants are not there to slave away.
Shameful debating tactic there Graham. It's not my old age I fear for, I'm pretty confident that won't be a problem.
But it's certainly true to say that the old age of the vast majority of society will be worse without immigrants, and indeed, that of the young too as they are crippled by huge costs and taxes.
Why is it you're so against immigrants anyway?He's stated outright, he doesn't want his life to deteriorate.
No I've stated I don't want living standards for all to deteriorate.
Please try to at least keep some level of accuracy in the debate.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »From post 192....
There is no link between rising immigration and rising unemployment, independent economists have found –
I'm not claiming that there is a link between rising immigration and rising unemployment. I'm arguing that majority of newly created jobs - as the ONS have shown and fullfact.org has agreed - are going to immigrants. This is a different issue. It isn't about rising unemployment, it is about unemployment failing to fall at a quick enough rate as the jobs that are being created are in the majority going to immigrants.
And this is why immigration is such a complex issue. I agree with you on some points, I agree with GD and grizzly on others. All of the evidence needs to be reviewed, as well as some which is not being readily discussed, such as re social cohesion and the growth of racism in places like South Lincs. I also want to do this with an open mind and be informed by powerful data from primary or highly-regarded sources. I'm not saying you haven't put good data out there, what I'm saying is that there is also some other information in the field that has a contrary take on immigration and that should rightly be considered too.Please stay safe in the sun and learn the A-E of melanoma: A = asymmetry, B = irregular borders, C= different colours, D= diameter, larger than 6mm, E = evolving, is your mole changing? Most moles are not cancerous, any doubts, please check next time you visit your GP.
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vivatifosi wrote: »I'm arguing that majority of newly created jobs - as the ONS have shown and fullfact.org has agreed - are going to immigrants. This is a different issue. It isn't about rising unemployment, it is about unemployment failing to fall at a quick enough rate as the jobs that are being created are in the majority going to immigrants..
Yes but the jobs are only being created because of migration.
That any go to the native born is a benefit, ie, natives benefit from the increase in economic activity brought by migrants.
As the NIESR report says, without that migration, unemployment among the native born would be worse.
Read the last para in bold again....“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
I know its the DM but Hamish I saw this and thought of you.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265341/Theres-chance-leaving-British-benefits-daughter-good-life-Migrant-enjoys-lavish-lifestyle-raking-1-000-month-benefits.htmlThe forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Yes but the jobs are only being created because of migration.
That's quite a claim Hamish.
Care to back it up?
On the one hand, I'm reading stories about how the pound is going to plummet in value this year and how great this will be for exports and job creation. On the other, we have you suggesting jobs are only created because of immigrants.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »That's quite a claim Hamish.
Care to back it up?
.
From posts 351 and 192.
NIESR research.
"Perhaps surprisingly," their economists said, "the interaction between migrant inflows and GDP emerges as positive, indicating that during periods of lower growth, migrant inflows are associated with ... slower [dole] claimant growth than would otherwise have occurredI know its the DM but Hamish I saw this and thought of you.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265341/Theres-chance-leaving-British-benefits-daughter-good-life-Migrant-enjoys-lavish-lifestyle-raking-1-000-month-benefits.html
You probably should have read the whole article.
Particularly the bit around credit cards funding the lifestyle, and the benefits only covering the minimum payments on the credit cards..:)“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »From posts 351 and 192.
NIESR research.
"Perhaps surprisingly," their economists said, "the interaction between migrant inflows and GDP emerges as positive, indicating that during periods of lower growth, migrant inflows are associated with ... slower [dole] claimant growth than would otherwise have occurred
Slower dole claimant growth?
Hardly states immigrants create jobs. It also states "indicates". Again, my 80+ page document from 12 peers, says differently and states there is no evidence of what you stated.
It would surely be difficult for NIESR to measure anyway, considering this is the only period of low growth we've had on the end of major immigration inflows. What are they comparing it against? And how do they know the massive amounts of stimulus are not part of the "indications"?0 -
Of what use is she to the UK?HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »From posts 351 and 192.
NIESR research.
"Perhaps surprisingly," their economists said, "the interaction between migrant inflows and GDP emerges as positive, indicating that during periods of lower growth, migrant inflows are associated with ... slower [dole] claimant growth than would otherwise have occurred
You probably should have read the whole article.
Particularly the bit around credit cards funding the lifestyle, and the benefits only covering the minimum payments on the credit cards..:)0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Slower dole claimant growth?
Hardly states immigrants create jobs..
And how else do you explain the mechanism for that?
Lets try breaking it down....
the interaction between migrant inflows and GDP emerges as positive,
Self explanatory
indicating that during periods of lower growth, migrant inflows are associated with ... slower [dole] claimant growth than would otherwise have occurred
So while in a recession or low growth period, unemployment will obviously rise, it would rise by more if migrants were not coming here.
In other words, migrants create more jobs than they take.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0
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