can i contest a box junction violation due to poor visibility?

dacouch

londonTiger wrote: »

so what are people supposed to do? when you're driving 10mph. You should all stop at the beginning of the junction until the entire junction is clear and you can see at least 1 car length empty on the other side before you proceed??

That would be great for London traffic. imagine if everyone did that.

IMO I just make sure that I can see the cars on the other side of the junction moving sufficiently fast before I enter - works out for me 99%

As mentioned earlier in the thread, as long as traffic is moving and not stationary when you enter, thjen it's not a violation if you stop in the box because the traffic suddenly stopped.

You could try this

londonTiger wrote: »

on a side note. if you get stuck in a box. can you just move backwards and forward to keep moving to avoid a box junction penalty?

fart

Tried to read the first page and my eyes exploded from self-righteousness infection.

facade

londonTiger wrote: »

IMO I just make sure that I can see the cars on the other side of the junction moving sufficiently fast before I enter - works out for me 99%

What most people do, me included.
The 99% thing is about right too, I got stuck in a box in Manchester when I misjudged the length of the box, spent the next 28 days watching for a ticket in the Post. Must have been the only junction where the CCTV wasn't working, or you are right about the only applying if you enter when traffic has stooped :cool:

londonTiger wrote: »

As mentioned earlier in the thread, as long as traffic is moving and not stationary when you enter, then it's not a violation if you stop in the box because the traffic suddenly stopped.

This is true, according to the wording of the offence, you mustn't enter if you exit is not clear, there is a defence if someone cuts you up, and as far as I can find out it has been interpreted that you mustn't enter the box if traffic is actually stationary on the other side.

This rather negates the point of having the box junction though

The traffic can just trundle on in one solid line, and simply pause in the box blocking the junction.

In fact, the only way you can fall foul of the regs, is if you turn left or right out of the crossing junction into the box when the junction clears and the traffic is backed up stationary so you cant clear the junction.

The whole thing seems wrong to me

londonTiger

facade wrote: »

This is true, according to the wording of the offence, you mustn't enter if you exit is not clear, there is a defence if someone cuts you up, and as far as I can find out it has been interpreted that you mustn't enter the box if traffic is actually stationary on the other side.

This rather negates the point of having the box junction though

The traffic can just trundle on in one solid line, and simply pause in the box blocking the junction.

In fact, the only way you can fall foul of the regs, is if you turn left or right out of the crossing junction into the box when the junction clears and the traffic is backed up stationary so you cant clear the junction.

The whole thing seems wrong to me

You would be surprised how useful a box junction is, there are so may cases drivers block the road by stopping in the middle of a junction. They don't care because there's no box junction to give them a ticket, so it's no stress for them. But it is when a cars trying to turn into a minor road and a car stuck in a traffic jam stopped in the middle of the junction has blocked entry and exit into the road.

Wongsky

londonTiger wrote: »

You would be surprised how useful a box junction is, there are so may cases drivers block the road by stopping in the middle of a junction. They don't care because there's no box junction to give them a ticket, so it's no stress for them. But it is when a cars trying to turn into a minor road and a car stuck in a traffic jam stopped in the middle of the junction has blocked entry and exit into the road.

I think the theory is sound - although I'm not convinced they are that well understood - the exit road being clear, I don't think many get. "Keep Clear" boxes make things more obvious - but like all these things, they tend to break down in heavy traffic / snarl points.

When it gets like that, reason and rules go out of the window, because once quite a few break the rules, then, largely the rest have to, or they'll never make any progress.

facade

londonTiger wrote: »

You would be surprised how useful a box junction is, there are so may cases drivers block the road by stopping in the middle of a junction. They don't care because there's no box junction to give them a ticket, so it's no stress for them. But it is when a cars trying to turn into a minor road and a car stuck in a traffic jam stopped in the middle of the junction has blocked entry and exit into the road.

I'm not disputing their intended usefulness, just surprised that the interpretation is precisely that a traffic jam can simply sit across the junction, provided that every car that entered the box did so before the traffic on the far side came to a stop.

londonTiger

surely it has a limiting factor and limits a total blockage ofthe junction.

with a box junction 1 car might be half in/half out. Or all in the box junction. But that is probably rare. But what will never happen is a total blockage of the junction by a line of 3 cars.

dacouch

londonTiger wrote: »

surely it has a limiting factor and limits a total blockage ofthe junction.

with a box junction 1 car might be half in/half out. Or all in the box junction. But that is probably rare. But what will never happen is a total blockage of the junction by a line of 3 cars.

You live in London, you must see total blockage of box junctions by 3 + cars.

Buses have a habit of blocking box junctions

I see it frequently.

Spankey

thor wrote: »

That's a bit rude BUT I do agree that from the description, the op was not driving dangerously. Not leaving enough space for another car to cut in is usually a sign of an unsafe driver but in this case the car was moving at a snail's pace so we just need to know what speed that is. 5mph, 1mph, 0.1mph?
If it was really crawling along then the car could be stopped in inches and don't forget the car in front will not stop instantaneously either as it will move a distance before coming to a stop.

Its the Blackwall Tunnel its allways slow and crawling, just listen to radio2 traffic reports and its on there constantly.

If you feel the box is not bright enough to be seen then allways appeal, you stand a decent chance if it is truly dark and inclear.

Crabman

londonTiger wrote: »

so what are people supposed to do? when you're driving 10mph. You should all stop at the beginning of the junction until the entire junction is clear and you can see at least 1 car length empty on the other side before you proceed??

That would be great for London traffic. imagine if everyone did that.

That's what I do when I'm driving through London. The whole point of a yellow box is that you do not stop inside it and thus block others from driving in a different direction.

Yes, I've had Mr Mid-Life Crisis cut in front of me and stop in the yellow box. That's to be expected and it doesn't really impact on your journey ETA.

Quite simply, you should not enter a yellow box junction unless you can see the exit is clear.