Flight Delay Compensation, Lufthansa Only

fluffy123

Hi, thanks. I'm not disupting the good advice I've been told

All I'm wondering about is the 'slam dunk' aspect because I've read some independent websites as well as LH's admittedly which seem to indicate that weather is beyond the airlines control.

Anyway, just ploughing through Vauban's guide now.

I was going to contact LH today by telephone to request a refund for the seat reservations for the flight that we were not allowed to try to get onto - is this wise or am I best just throwing this in my main claim?

Thanks for your help, it's appreciated.

fluffy123

Does this seem okay as a draft email to Lufthansa customer relations?

F.A.O: Lufthansa

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: Compensation claim for delayed flight
Booking reference: LH947/LH772 (Sunday 24th July 2016)

I am writing regarding flights LH947 & connecting flight LH772 on Sunday 24th July 2016 from Manchester to Frankfurt with the scheduled departure time of 6.10pm and Frankfurt to Bangkok with the scheduled departure time of 10.00pm. LH947 arrived behind schedule at Manchester airport and eventually departed at 7.31pm landing at Frankfurt at 9.39pm which caused issues with our connecting flight LH772 onwards to Bangkok. Due to circumstances, we eventually arrived 16 hours late at Bangkok.

The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am claiming compensation for myself and my wife Article 7 of EC 261/2004, pursuant to the Sturgeon judgment in the ECJ (Case C-402/07 of 19 November 2009), which provides for €600 per passenger to be paid in the following circumstances. These were that Lufthansa did not allow us an opportunity to board our connecting flight of LH772 even though we landed at Frankfurt Airport at 9.39pm before LH772’s eventual departure time of 10.21pm and were instead informed on flight LH947 that we were ‘rebooked’ onto a waiting list for a connecting flight on LH772 for a day later in that week.

The passengers in the party were XXXXX

My scheduled flight length was in excess of 3,500km, therefore I am seeking €600 per delayed passenger in my party. The total is €1200 for all passengers.

Additionally, we had pre-booked seats at £20 each on LH772 which we were not able to board on a 2-4-2 configuration in an allocated 2 seats. Due to assistance at a Lufthansa service desk in Frankfurt, we were rebooked onto a flight with Thai Airways departing Munich the following day to Bangkok in a 3-4-3 configuration and had no control over our seat allocation instead being placed in the middle of four seats which is not what we pre-booked and was inconvenient to both ourselves and our surrounding passengers.


The total compensation sought is €1200 for our delayed arrival to Bangkok 16 hours behind schedule and £40 for our unused seat reservations onto LH772 that we were not permitted to board.

I look forward to a full response to this email within 14 days. If I do not receive a satisfactory response I intend to pursue my complaint further, which could mean taking it to court.

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXX

JPears

fluffy - weather is an EC, but it didn't directly affect your flight so as we said, it should be a slamdunk case. Basically, forget about the weather issue....

fluffy123

Ah, okay - it makes sense now! I thought other flights attributed to the plane in question on the day might have counted too. Thanks.

Yes, it appears to have been an earlier flight from Paris to Frankfurt and then the Frankfurt to Manchester flight where the time was lost.

Is it worth mentioning this in the email/letter to LH?

Caz3121

I would not bother with the section stating you were not allowed an opportunity to board the flight.
a) the gate will already have closed when you landed (irrespective of eventual take off time)
b) it makes no difference to the compensation so is not really relevant

stick to ...flight from MAN-FRA delayed, missed FRA-BKK flight, rebooked onto TG...arrived x time compared to original scheduled arrival time of y...compensation due

fluffy123

Thanks Caz.

Finally got a reply back from LH with the following....

'Thank you for your online correspondence dated 15 August 2016.

We are sorry for the inconveniences you had to face. The weather impact (thunderstorm, lightning, heavy rainfall) was overwhelmingly massive and intense. Frankfurt airport could not continue operation on Friday evening/night as no further parking positions were available. The airport was temporarily closed. Numerous diversions and cancellations took place and flights had to be postponed. Despite all efforts we could regrettably not provide the service you can expect from us.

As much as we regret the consequences of the cancellation of your flight, Lufthansa is not responsible or liable for any acts of Force Majeure. We therefore ask for your understanding that we cannot comply with your request for compensation. Furthermore we will settle the seat reservation that you and your wife did not use amounting to GBP40. Please send us your bank code and account number to proceed with the reimbursement. Once we have received the bank details. We will settle the amount and contact you again.

Although we are unable to give you the answer you and your wife had hoped for, we would be pleased to welcome you on board a Lufthansa flight again soon.

Yours sincerely etc etc'


How best to proceed do we think? For a start, the reference is to thunderstorms on Friday and our issues were on Sunday....

Also, do I send my bank details to claim the £40 and then continue for the rest or would that be classed as 'settling'?

Thanks for your help in advance.

JPears

As you are likely to need to issue small claims papers and it is part of reg 261/2004 I would keep it bundled together.

You now need to send another brief letter with claim again, stating that it is an NBA giving them 2 weeks to pay up or your will start legal ation - assuming you intend to or hand to a NWNF company, such as Botts.

fluffy123

Sorry - what's an NBA?


Does this seem okay as a response? Wanted to get across the argument that it was about a different date to that they reference in the initial email, that it was solely about previous flights as our flight had an average journey time and the previous legal cases that highlight our claims argument. Thanks!





Thank you for your response to my initial request.

I am disappointed in the initial response however and make a clear reference to the fact that these issues occurred on Sunday 24th July and not Friday 22nd July as you highlight in your email. Therefore, I would ask you to reassess on that basis and the below.

With regards to the issues highlighted in our claim, I refer to the following. Weather on a previous rotation is not extraordinary. Information taken on flightradar24.com, flightstats.com and flightaware.com highlight that the weather did not directly affect our flight as aircraft D-AIRU arrived at Manchester at 6.18pm UK time, left at 7.31pm UK time and arrived at Frankfurt at 9.39pm local time (Journey time of just over one hour) which would indicate an above average journey. Previous journeys impacted upon this delay.

Under the definition of 'extraordinary circumstances' of EU Regulation 261/2004. LH 947 was not directly affected by ‘freak’ or ‘wholly exceptional weather’. In fact, on Sunday 24th July, it was earlier flights that affected the running of aircraft D-AIRU and it's departure time from Manchester Airport. Again, flightradar24.com, flightstats.com and flightaware.com all show aircraft D-AIRU's schedule for that day and highlight where/when issues occurred.

In addition, recent legal cases such as Jager vs Easyjet, Evans v Monarch and Huzar v Jet2 further my claim that ours was not an 'exceptional circumstance'. Indeed, in Evans v Monarch, Judge Clarke also made it clear in her ruling that bad weather, such as lightning, that is ‘inherent in the normal exercise of the carrier’s activity’ is not an extraordinary circumstance.


It is clear that any bad weather affecting a previous flight, causing our flight to be delayed and then missing our connecting flight to Bangkok is not an 'extraordinary circumstance', therefore I offer you up to 14 days to reassess this and conclude that my claim for €600e each for myself and my partnet, is valid along with the additional £40 for our unused seat reservations (therefore, a total of €1200e & £40) is valid and payable. If this is not met, with a strong legal case behind me, I will have little choice but to begin legal action in the upcoming days.

Vauban

Don't threaten legal action unless you mean it. And if you mean it, you need to know what you're doing before you start it. So I would start reading up now - including what an NBA is - before engaging in further correspondence.

The key point for your letter is that the regulations make clear than meteorological conditions can only be considered extraordinary if they affect the flight concerned. Yours is two days later. I would not get into citing particular cases especially, not least since none of those is binding in law.

fluffy123

Legal action will be done if required - whether that's independently or via Botts (probably more likely) remains to be seen. Will remove the legal cases stated in the response though as recommended and look into an NBA.