Possibly Getting Dismissed through Sham Redundancy.

skintchick

If they want rid of you then they will make it happen. Just move on.

Two out of the three times I've been made redundant I just got told, along with the other people chosen to go. They can get rid of whichever roles they want and they will choose to lose people who are pricey or whose role is optional in the business or who have been difficult or whatever.

In one place I was too expensive and in another I was a role that was unique but dispensible.

But I was never shown any scoring, just told I was bring made redundant.

heretolearn_2

1. Have Employment Tribunals agreed upon a fairscoring system for redundancies? If so where can I find it?
No, there is no standard scoring system; employers can decide for themselves which qualities are important to their business, and how to weight them. If you think about it, how could you come up with one single scoring system to cover, say, a farmworker's role, that would also be appropriate to a bank manager, and a nursery nurse, and a travelling sales rep.
It is advisable though for them to be as quantifiable as possible rather than just being opinion. As if you wish to challenge your score, you can do so on the basis of your awarded score not being correct according to their criteria. If a criteria were 'attitude', for example, it's difficult to justify any particular score at all. If it's something measurable and recordable, such as disciplinary record, then they can justify your score quite clearly (or you can find an error clearly). So you might get x points for each verbal warning, x points for each written warning, x points for each final written warning, with more points for each of the latter as more serious. If they really aren't quantifiable, then if you did decide to go to an employment tribunal it might - MIGHT - be taken into account. But generally the position is that tribunals don't get to interfere in the criteria chosen.

2. If my employers proposed scoring is outside this agreed scoring what can I do?
n/a
3. Can my employers refuse to show me my scoring?
They are supposed to but they don't have to show you any one else's so it doesn't achieve much for you.

Caroline_a

To be honest I would start looking for other jobs if you feel it will be you who goes. If they want to get rid of you then they can skew the scoring so that it's you that gets the lowest score anyway, just by setting the criteria to show that.

dandelionclock30

O.P if I were you I'd be pulling out all the stops to get another job like now.You are obviously not very happy there and also your getting into trouble all the time, so things are not very good for you really are they. Instead of worrying about will they or wont they make me redundant etc what about going and seeing if the agencies have anything etc.? Presumably you will be able to do all sorts of office work? What about Office Angels and places like that?
If they want you out of the door then they will get you out. Its horrible been on a final written warning and they are basically telling you that your time there is limited. What you do is upto you really, but I think its better for you to take control, not be at their mercy.

Nicki

LegalSec wrote: »

zzzLazyDaisy....

Top marks for remembering my case a few months ago but Zero marks for accepting my employers version of events to which there is little or no evidence. I was not rude to a client just a little abrupt. Sure I have had a couple of run-ins with other people in the office but this seems to allow people to assume I was rude to a client without taking into account the stupid and self-important client's credibility in the matter. She wanted to show how her money gave her power and it looks as though she will win!!!

You still don't get it obviously.

Solicitors are in a service industry. So it matters not whether you were rude or just abrupt. That is UNACCEPTABLE in all circumstances whether the client is stupid, self important or indeed even rude themselves.

Would you go to a restaurant where the waitress was abrupt with you? Would you choose to have your haircut by an abrupt hairdresser? Or be happy if a doctor or doctor's receptionist were abrupt with you.

Your behaviour whether it was outright rude or just abrupt (and I too read the original thread and based on what you yourself described I'd describe it as rude) brought your employer into disrepute because it was sufficiently out of order to trigger the client to make a formal complaint. As a former solicitor myself, I, like Daisy, would not have given you a third chance to do this.

Mischa8

Just piggy backing on back of previous comments.

It seems as though OP has learnt nothing from her experiences and has even omitted run ins with colleagues. First it was *one experience* now it's *a couple*. Not counting the rudeness to a client.

As I said before to OP in a PM and on board in threads she needed to up her attitude promptly.

Even I know where she works (a small city) and like other posters have said here, it's a very small world and people talk.

It could well be a ploy to get her out, this redundancy but she has done herself no favours and I'm not surprised they want rid of her.

Mischa8

Nicki wrote: »

You still don't get it obviously.

Solicitors are in a service industry. So it matters not whether you were rude or just abrupt. That is UNACCEPTABLE in all circumstances whether the client is stupid, self important or indeed even rude themselves.

Would you go to a restaurant where the waitress was abrupt with you? Would you choose to have your haircut by an abrupt hairdresser? Or be happy if a doctor or doctor's receptionist were abrupt with you.

Your behaviour whether it was outright rude or just abrupt (and I too read the original thread and based on what you yourself described I'd describe it as rude) brought your employer into disrepute because it was sufficiently out of order to trigger the client to make a formal complaint. As a former solicitor myself, I, like Daisy, would not have given you a third chance to do this.

Nicki - ITA with all you say. For service industry it is imperative as a legal sec or when dealing with clients to be calm and polite at all times. If you do get impatient or feel you are about to be rude to a client then you either DO NOT DO IT, or as I've been told to do, count to three, take a deep breath, do not engage in further convo and warn if you're terminating a phone call.

Just the other week we had a client ranting and raving at both me, and my boss and she'd previously had run ins with another colleague about another incident. She was the worst type of client as she didn't work, had bought property through trust fund and she had worked in a conveyancing office. her brother was also a solicitor. when I spoke to her last week I was polite, helpful and when she screamed and shouted I told her she wasn't being respectful or polite to me and I was terminating the (now 8 minutes) phone call. She emailed the office in a huff wanting her file back, to go to her solicitor brother. As we've had a few clients go to Law Society (other matters, to do with another partner) I immediately after my *run in*with her made an attendance note/email and documented it to my boss and complaints manager.

THIS IS THE WAY YOU DEAL WITH STROPPY CLIENTS! The client was certainly not stupid, and even if she was and even if she had had money (she does) as LegalSec's client she was rude to has, in that situation then that has no bearing as to you as support staff and the way you treat them. you're there to take a message and the your boss is there and being paid to handle her case.

As I said before, assertiveness/anger management course springs to mind. for LegalSec but she seems a confrontational type person who doesn't learn so no wonder she feels a bit insecure now.

dizzyrascal

Mischa8 wrote: »

Nicki - ITA with all you say. For service industry it is imperative as a legal sec or when dealing with clients to be calm and polite at all times. If you do get impatient or feel you are about to be rude to a client then you either DO NOT DO IT, or as I've been told to do, count to three, take a deep breath, do not engage in further convo and warn if you're terminating a phone call.

Just the other week we had a client ranting and raving at both me, and my boss and she'd previously had run ins with another colleague about another incident. She was the worst type of client as she didn't work, had bought property through trust fund and she had worked in a conveyancing office. her brother was also a solicitor. when I spoke to her last week I was polite, helpful and when she screamed and shouted I told her she wasn't being respectful or polite to me and I was terminating the (now 8 minutes) phone call. She emailed the office in a huff wanting her file back, to go to her solicitor brother. As we've had a few clients go to Law Society (other matters, to do with another partner) I immediately after my *run in*with her made an attendance note/email and documented it to my boss and complaints manager.

THIS IS THE WAY YOU DEAL WITH STROPPY CLIENTS! The client was certainly not stupid, and even if she was and even if she had had money (she does) as LegalSec's client she was rude to has, in that situation then that has no bearing as to you as support staff and the way you treat them. you're there to take a message and the your boss is there and being paid to handle her case.

As I said before, assertiveness/anger management course springs to mind. for LegalSec but she seems a confrontational type person who doesn't learn so no wonder she feels a bit insecure now.

I don't think there can be anyone on this board who is in any doubt of how you feel about this poster. You need to leave it alone now.
I have reported you for bullying because of your numerous nasty posts.
If you want to leave constructive advice then do so. If not, leave this poster alone!

McKneff

Just as an aside, a point from an earlier posts prompts me to say,

'It makes no difference to claiming benefits whether you are made redundant or take voluntary redundancy.

That's all

[Deleted User]

OP - I've been made redundant 4 times in various circumstances in the past 10 years. A few points:-

1. You work for a law firm. I can guarantee they will know what they can and can't do.

2. The scoring is supposed to be fair. But, in reality, they can and will fiddle it to suit themselves. If they decide that warnings etc in the past are a big issue for them then no-one else can tell them they cant score on this - its their business after all. To be fair I think all companies decide who they want to go and then fiddle the scoring to suit this anyway.

3. They dont have to accept voluntary applications. Businesses dont want people to go who they want to stay. period.

I've had all sorts of thing happen to me. Only thing you can them for is if they dont follow procedure (which they will I think in your case).

I had one place who made up some things I did and then told me I was being suspended - unless I agreed to go and signed a compromise agreement. Compete stitch up to short cut the redundancy process.

I knew someone who was one of the top HR solictors in the country take a look at this. Their opinion - not a lot you can do because if they want you gone, you're gone, its just not worth the time/money to fight it. In the end they did get a few more weeks pay but thats it.